It's a hell of a deal on budget, I don't think anyone disputes that. Although people also managed to buy 3800H well below $1K at times.
Fair but not seeing $1k 3800H's and not bashing those who want or have them. Challenging those who thumb their noses at the RZ30 because it failed a very rigorous test that rarely shows up with actual use and pontificate about how bad they are. I think there is of bang for the buck at $800 and features not found under $1.5k
I see the point but don't think that leaving out ART is worth the difference. We are talking about (generous cal) $1.5K spread over say 5 years so about $25 a month. I save much more just by drinking coffee at home as opposed at overpriced coffee shop. Not that I need to but like my coffee that way.
In my case my HT is a secondary system, 5.1 surround with one sub supporting movies in a media area and sound to open plan second floor kitchen/media, living and dining with several unaligned wide passages between. I setup Dirac for mostly media and myriad of ceiling heights, walls, surfaces and angles with a very satisfactory result. I could see the advantages of ART if I had one main system but use three, four if you count my very quiet EV. Frankly 50% of my listening is on my weakest system in separate building, garage/shop where I catch up on real my passion in audio, new music of unheard saved must try list of albums. I think often that some on ASR just push for the ultimate system without consideration of budgets, size, configurations and needs of others based only on Amirs measurements, as he does not focus on features nearly as much by choice.
Well, that's just your listening pattern. There is many use cases for different setups. There is consensus at least to some extent as to what really works. Some solutions are expensive but it does not mean they are bad - just not affordable. We discuss features at noseum in our posts, so whatever is not in Amir's reviews - we fill in.
@peng, my "draw at idle" comment was based on the post above (you must have skipped this). In any case, it was an estimate and not an actual measurement...
If an indication that the "unintended 4 ohm mode" is active is enough for you, it's certainly not enough for me. What's the point of knowing it's limping if you can't do anything about it?!!! No other AVR does this!Thanks, I understand what you are saying, but that has nothing to do with my question at all. My question referred to @EWL5's post#27 (may be he could clarify that for me), in which he responded to your post, stating:
Onkyo TX-RZ30 AV Receiver Review
There is a lot talk about power, but how many people actually checked power used? Set your preferred volume, connect oscilloscope or even RMS voltmeter to a speaker and look for the peak V. Then estimate peak power as V*V/4. I prefer quiet music and I know that I listen below 1W/channel. Anyone...
Yet in your post, you never mentioned "idle draw". That's what I was curious/confused about, wondering what @EWL5 was referring to. Maybe he responded after you edited your post, I have no idea.
I thought your post meant to say the Denon's rated output into 4 ohms was 50 W, two channels driven, when the impedance setting was set to 4 ohms.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, whether it is the so called idle draw, or output into 4 ohms when set to 4 ohms impedance. To me, Amir's measurements are much more useful, as I would never use the 4 ohms impedance setting anyway (if I own an AVR). As to the RZ30, I would just repeat that I have no issue with the so called limp mode if it comes with an alert of some kind, but it doesn't so yeah in that sense, I think it sucks, for users who may not know their >$1,000 AVR is in limp mode. I think it can be a very good preamp/dac for use with external amps if in fact the street price is around $800.
We are aligned on this and Amir wisely lets us get in the weeds on features most of the time. I will add, music starts with composition, musicianship/voice, recording and storage for me those are the most value and quality added parts. Playback can only replicate those at best, however that is what ASR is about. DSP and bass management are big leaps forward and having that in affordable one box device is a big deal for many. I hope no one took my defense of the RZ30 as repudiation of better but more expensive options. It just left more cash for more and/or better components. I am not qualified to say whether Dirac and two subs is better than ART and one.
Nobody really is - it is system and room dependent, and also has to do with listening preferences. People often seek guidance like that but it's really a difficult question. Reminds me of the uni where most asked question was how little I need to study to pass the exam. Well my answer was it really depends how many times you want to take the exam.
Not enough for me either, but may be for those who just want to at least know when to power cycle their unit (a real power cycling), better than not even know. Onkyo really should try and do a FW update to fix this issue, it shouldn't be that difficult to do. But then again, if only a few people complained about it on audio forums, they may not have any incentive to do anything.
The Audiovision.de review got 186W into 2ch for their own 4 ohm test (other conditions unknown) whereas Amir got 162W after replugging the RZ30. Based on this, one can assume that it would have been well short of 102W into 5 channels under Amir’s rigorous conditions (and that’s if you knew to replug the AVR!).
Amir is doing more tests and some aren't standard. For example these 162W isn't standard, while 186W by Audiovision is standard 1kHz/1%THD.
Are you saying Amir didn’t test the 3800 the same way as the RZ30?
Easily the best “ignore” of Amir’s “not recommended” in the history of ASR. I also have ART capability years after purchase to boot!The same and more.
And it was "not recommended" too
Not sure of the purpose of this comparison. I thought we agreed Amir's basis is different from Audiovision's (definitely not apples to apples).To add to recent discussion:
X3800h measured by Amir:
RZ30 measured by Audiovision:
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