Onkyo TX-RZ30 AV Receiver Review

[EWL5]

I agree with this. The ART is a before and after tech for our hobby. The bottom is going to fall out if the avr market in my opinion because its not competitive.

The current RZ street prices are just about right where they should be w/o ART capability. For folks who don't need ART, just get the RZs and call it a day.

When the 2027 RZs come out, don't be surprised if retail pricing is a lot closer to current Denons!

 

[MoStyles]

I rebranded "limp mode" to "unintended 4 ohm mode" because it appears to be a more neutral term and describes exactly what's going on w/o too much explanation.

I see that both owners and non-owners alike have no clue what the mode is doing and why it's so bad so I'll most likely start a thread summarizing the topic...

Please explain this to us in layman terms since I have no clue. I really would like to know. Sorry, I have very limited equiptment for testing.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Please explain this to us in layman terms since I have no clue. I really would like to know. Sorry, I have very limited equiptment for testing.

Most modern speakers are 4 or 6 ohm. 4 ohm loads challenge amplifiers. Solution is outboard amps for main speakers and maybe center channel. If you set to 4 ohm, the amps power is limited to prevent clipping or damage to speakers. If you set to 8 ohm, then limp mode may come on to prevent damage if difficult load is detected.

 

[EWL5]

Please explain this to us in layman terms since I have no clue. I really would like to know. Sorry, I have very limited equiptment for testing.

I realize my reply could have been more sensitive so apologies for snapping at you.

I will be starting a thread momentarily and link to it here.

 

[EWL5]

Please explain this to us in layman terms since I have no clue. I really would like to know. Sorry, I have very limited equiptment for testing.

See if this new thread helps...

"Limp mode" for Beginners

There's been enough confusion on this topic that I think it rightfully deserves it's own thread: In 2021, a number of "better than entry" and mid-range AVRs were introduced by Premium Audio Company (PAC), some of the first in the industry to include Dirac room correction in the price! Over the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[amirm]

Most modern speakers are 4 or 6 ohm.

Most speakers are at or below 4 ohm. I have yet to see any at 6 ohm.

 

[MoStyles]

Most modern speakers are 4 or 6 ohm. 4 ohm loads challenge amplifiers. Solution is outboard amps for main speakers and maybe center channel. If you set to 4 ohm, the amps power is limited to prevent clipping or damage to speakers. If you set to 8 ohm, then limp mode may come on to prevent damage if difficult load

I realize my reply could have been more sensitive so apologies for snapping at you.

I will be starting a thread momentarily and link to it here.

Thank you for the apology. I could have been more specific in my post but I didn’t want to pull out testing equipment. I did grab my fluke and the speakers are technically 3.8 ohm dc resistance like mort speakers. (8 ohm nominal) I didn’t want to push these paradigm speakers too hard with this cheap amp because It’s intended to be used as a preamp. I still need to pull my Rotel amps from my other house.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Except the RZ30 goes on sale for $750 quite often. And nobody is mentioning the large load absorbed by powered sub(s). The sin is no alert on the display and the need for a re- power to reset it. Just because Amir can't follow his normal protocol doesn't stop this from being a bargain under $1K, especially for those who have modest setups in small rooms.

If they market it for "small rooms" or 8 0hm speakers only or just put an easy to see indicator on the front of limp mode, and make it a simple button to push to reset it then it would be far better but as it is now, it is a clear rip off. I agree, in a small room with decent speakers for movies, it will be fine but it needs to be marketed "for small rooms". They will not do that as they want to scam their way through and sell as many as they can to unsuspecting owners. It is sleazy and disrespectful of the customers. Also, they can EASILY build the unit to have more current capability quite cheaply. I am still appalled. We need someone in the audio community who can talk to the manufacturers to relay what is going on and see what they say. They will not change unti lthey are confronted.

 

[valerianf]

The amplifier design that is used on the RZ30 is sold since a very long time under the brands Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer.
Users are buying these AVR because the pricing is not too high, knowing that the amplifier section is not able to drive properly a 4 ohm speaker, as it is stated in many reviews. Onkyo has implemented a software upgrade after Amir first tested the Pioneer RXV 505 and complained about the limo mode.
On the user side, if there is an issue driving some difficult speakers, the solution is simple: change the AVR or buy a power amplifier capable of driving 4 ohms (or less).
At $800 or less , the RZ30 is a very good buying.
For sure I would prefer a class G amplifier from Arcam, but look at the price of their AVR: it is not the same range of spending.

 

[Timcognito]

I think we are at a point where some of think it's a "throw the baby out with the bath water" issue and others think dump or don't buy because of one tragic flaw, that in fact virtually every owner who posted in this thread has not seen and because of Amirs high standards. It seems to me that if Onkyo were to come up with a firmware update that displayed a warning of some sort, even if one had to throw a breaker or pull the plug if it did happen, many would buy this AVR for its many features, pre-out, Dirac, two sub management, 7 channels, etc. It goes on sale all time at or close to half price and not everyone has giant home theater and almost all use powered subs in there setups.

 

[Oddball]

I think we are at a point where some of think it's a "throw the baby out with the bath water" issue and others think dump or don't buy because of one tragic flaw, that in fact virtually every owner who posted in this thread has not seen and because of Amirs high standards. It seems to me that if Onkyo were to come up with a firmware update that displayed a warning of some sort, even if one had to throw a breaker or pull the plug if it did happen, many would buy this AVR for its many features, pre-out, Dirac, two sub management, 7 channels, etc. It goes on sale all time at or close to half price and not everyone has giant home theater and almost all use powered subs in there setups.

Then please go ahead and pull the trigger. This thing is apparently hot for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Rick63]

I would never consider this unit due to the lovely limp mode "feature" and cheap build quality, not to mention I'd always have reliability concerns on my mind. How many times has Onkyo's ownership changed hands in this century? Then again, as far as build quality and reliability I'd have those same concerns with most AVRs made these days.

That said, I wish those who have or will be purchasing this unit in the future the best of luck with their units.

 

[a.dent]

From following this thread it seems to me the people who are critical of the RZ-30 are all non-owners. The people who have never had a problem with it are all owners.

 

[Rick63]

From following this thread it seems to me the people who are critical of the RZ-30 are all non-owners. The people who have never had a problem with it are all owners.

Well, this is a science/measurement based forum, and in that regard the poll shows exactly how the vast majority feel.

 

[popej]

Well, this is a science/measurement based forum, and in that regard the poll shows exactly how the vast majority feel.

Yes. Recommendation and opinions are based on SINAD and output power. Which is totally insufficient to rate a device as complicated as AVR. Basicaly SINAD is non issue and power is typical for an AVR.

It is good to see proper measurements. I would hesitate to buy without seeing them. But they are only a small part of reasons I buy something.

 

[dlaloum]

Except the RZ30 goes on sale for $750 quite often. And nobody is mentioning the large load absorbed by powered sub(s). The sin is no alert on the display and the need for a re- power to reset it. Just because Amir can't follow his normal protocol doesn't stop this from being a bargain under $1K, especially for those who have modest setups in small rooms.

With external power amps attached it worked for 3 years as an admirable and economical AVP driving my power amps/speakers.

With less demanding (8ohm standard) speakers - it would have done fine in my rather large open living area - the weakness was in driving demanding speakers, with my Gallo's being a fairly odd design with their CDT piezo based tweeter dropping down to 1.63ohm.

When I tried the RZ30 "in the raw" driving my B&O Penta's - it did just fine, and filled the large space with sound without any trouble - they are a more standard design with a relatively benign impedance.

So for most speakers in most spaces, I think the RZ30 would do just fine.

 

[dlaloum]

Most speakers are at or below 4 ohm. I have yet to see any at 6 ohm.

Shouldn't we be bagging the speaker manufacturers? (for putting out hard to drive low impedance speakers)

Or am I still stuck in the 1980's.... when the norm was 8ohm!

 

[ppierre]

Shouldn't we be bagging the speaker manufacturers? (for putting out hard to drive low impedance speakers)

For an amplifier what is the easiest thing to do, for more power ?

1. Higher voltage ?
2. Or more current at the same voltage ?

Maybe lowering the resistance of speakers is done for letting them use more power with the same amplifier technology...

 

[Mnyb]

Most modern speakers are 4 or 6 ohm. 4 ohm loads challenge amplifiers. Solution is outboard amps for main speakers and maybe center channel. If you set to 4 ohm, the amps power is limited to prevent clipping or damage to speakers. If you set to 8 ohm, then limp mode may come on to prevent damage if difficult load is detected.

Thing is when measured they are not 8 ohm anymore even if the manufacturer put that on the spec .

This is the second most fibbed spec after sensitivity

 

[popej]

For an amplifier what is the easiest thing to do, for more power ?

The word "power" has quite fuzzy meaning. It is different for tests like Amir does and different for music playback, like AVR owner does. If the budget is limited, you can't optimize both.
IMO there is no spec for 4 Ohm in AVR manual and settings for 4 Ohm gives subpar output, because AVR power is optimized for music, not for validating specification. AVR is specified for 8 Ohm, it pass all tests for 8 Ohm but you get best results for music, when you use 4 Ohm speakers and set AVR for 8 Ohm. That is probably design goal. It doesn't mean, that you can easily perform standard test for max power with this arrangement.