Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review

[AlexanderM]

Reports in the field appear to be nil. I explained in the RZ50 thread why it ought to be immediately obvious if it happened, and why it is unlikely ever to happen. Audioholics observed the same performance, and based on when it happens, and how, you would need to be severely overdriving or overtaxing things, assuming typical program content. My recollection is that it took a few seconds of very high current demands to trip. Real consumer program material doesn't do that. And if you were causing such demands the power drop would be immediately obvious. Is the reset behavior ideal? No, but if you abuse this thing so hard you trip it, you deserve to have your toys taken away anyhow.

I mean, you're getting a Dirac license and over 100 useful watts on multiple channels. Just what do people want for under a grand? Or like $500 for a refurb. I almost bought one, but needed preouts and Dynamic EQ, so bought a used Denon that cost me almost that. I will go out on a limb and say you will cannot get better sound in room, for 100W 6 ohm speakers for this money, on a new unit or combination of "stuff" that will do what this does period. Because Dirac.

Agreed. I would still purchase one, on the assumption it would be the best deal, but would be mindful of my set up, would likely avoid 4 ohm speakers, although I doubt I would ever push them hard enough to have a problem, I don't like excessive loudness, hurts my ears.

 

[anphex]

I want a high SINAD audio Pre Processorwith DTS/Dolby already. Why is it so hard to get

My Denon is doing just fine, but still it's audio over HDMI and I have so much stuff in there I do not need.

 

[ryanmh1]

I would spend a few hundred more on a refurb Denon X3800H.

It's closer to $500 refurb to refurb, and a whopping $800 current new to new Amazon prices if you toss the Pioneer VSX-LX305 twin in the mix. Big money in this niche.

Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. There is a bad tendency for that here. This is, bar none, the best no pre-out AVR on the market for the shelf price money, and people are savaging it for totally irrelevant, will not matter for its use case, technical issues. For $700 street price, this thing has nine amplifiers in it, at least that many DACs, Atmos, bass management, FM tuner, analog and digital inputs/volume/switching, a phono stage, HDMI switching and video, wifi and network streaming, Chromecast, AirPlay, AptX Bluetooth, and full Dirac. But, oh, what crap, it won't drive inefficient speakers at absurd volume levels, and you might have to pay $300 for the next model up with preouts and ever more inaudible THD/SINAD numbers. Clearly, it sucks.

 

[beagleman]

I agree only because I won't buy a receiver unless it has at least 7.X preouts.
However if preouts are not a concern then the refurb for 650.00 on A4L is very attractive with the included Dirac!

I was of the same mindset, got a Yamaha and had to have all channel pre-outs and mostly out of laziness, used it for quite a period with built in amps, and frankly never found them lacking.

When I finally mustered up the energy to move stuff around one day, and finally do my separate amps I was left a bit underwhelmed.

Not that it did not sound good per se, but that it was not apparent anything was truly better. I guess "Maybe" on really demanding stuff with loud deep bass, "I maybe" thought it sounded less stressed (with my 4 ohm mains) but I was truly not even sure.....??

 

[master_arthur]

There was a thread a few days ago asking the question, is Marantz dead?. I think the same question applies to Onkyo/Pioneer. If I understand the ownership correctly, they are nothing more than an asset property being held until such time they can be let go. I'm all in favor of profit, but I think we can conclude that a re-organization or redesign of products would be deemed by the bean counters to be not very cost effective, essentially forcing these two companies to be sold at scrap metal prices.

Hopefully it will get sold to a Chinese company so we can get good S/N ratio.

Not sure if Japanese law allows Chinese ownership though.

 

[anphex]

I doubt Dolby/DTS will ever hand any IP to Chinese companies. It's one of the few money printing license the US has left. Though I am still not sure why Dolby and DTS are still a thing. Just give us multichannel OGG/Flac and it would be another codec problem solved for eternity.

 

[peng]

I doubt Dolby/DTS will ever hand any IP to Chinese companies. It's one of the few money printing license the US has left. Though I am still not sure why Dolby and DTS are still a thing. Just give us multichannel OGG/Flac and it would be another codec problem solved for eternity.

I think they will, no reason not to sell more licenses.

 

[welwynnick]

I think they will, no reason not to sell more licenses.

I'd quite like to see Topping , SMSL etc get their hands on some AV processing.

 

[kyuu]

But, oh, what crap, it won't drive inefficient speakers at absurd volume levels, and you might have to pay $300 for the next model up with preouts and ever more inaudible THD/SINAD numbers. Clearly, it sucks.

We get it, you have no problem excusing bad engineering because Dirac and price. That's your decision to make. I don't agree.

 

[Doodski]

It's closer to $500 refurb to refurb, and a whopping $800 current new to new Amazon prices if you toss the Pioneer VSX-LX305 twin in the mix. Big money in this niche.

Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. There is a bad tendency for that here. This is, bar none, the best no pre-out AVR on the market for the shelf price money, and people are savaging it for totally irrelevant, will not matter for its use case, technical issues. For $700 street price, this thing has nine amplifiers in it, at least that many DACs, Atmos, bass management, FM tuner, analog and digital inputs/volume/switching, a phono stage, HDMI switching and video, wifi and network streaming, Chromecast, AirPlay, AptX Bluetooth, and full Dirac. But, oh, what crap, it won't drive inefficient speakers at absurd volume levels, and you might have to pay $300 for the next model up with preouts and ever more inaudible THD/SINAD numbers. Clearly, it sucks.

This device has a severe power limiting mode and that makes it junk. If it cannot output rated power then it is useless.

EDIT: I have since learned that the unit does not go into reduced power mode when listening to audio. So there's that.

 

[NOAMattD]

I doubt Dolby/DTS will ever hand any IP to Chinese companies. It's one of the few money printing license the US has left. Though I am still not sure why Dolby and DTS are still a thing. Just give us multichannel OGG/Flac and it would be another codec problem solved for eternity.

Isn't Tonewinner chinese owned?

 

[popej]

If it cannot output rated power then it is useless.

Rated power is 2*100W/8Ohm, while Amir forced it to 2*200W/4Ohm. I don't understand your logic, is it really surprising, that some kind of protection was triggered?

 

[kyuu]

Rated power is 2*100W/8Ohm, while Amir forced it to 2*200W/4Ohm. I don't understand your logic, is it really surprising, that some kind of protection was triggered?

One, if it doesn't have a rating at 4 Ohms, that's a red flag right there. No speaker has a flat 8 Ohm impedance. Two, it's a problem when that protection is not documented, not advertised, and effectively hidden from the user, and does not clear without a hard power cycle.

Edit: It appears to have a 4 Ohm rating, at least for dynamic power: 250 W (3 ohms, Front) 220 W (4 ohms, Front) 130 W (8 ohms, Front). So according to its specs, it should handle 200W into the front channels as long as it is transient.

 

[popej]

So according to its specs, it should handle 200W into the front channels as long as it is transient.

No info, how many channels simultaneously. Amir measured over 2*260W, so it can.
Protection probably appeared because of 200W at 10kHz. In real life it would blow tweeters.

 

[dlaloum]

There could be a number of users who have encountered the power limiting issue without realizing. As Amir noted, the unit does not advertise when it goes into this undocumented state.

The state is documented, and its status is visible via the web interface.
It would have been nice to have an indicator on the panel as well.

And yes, many users would never realise that they are being power limited, especially given many users will never use the power limited maximum... and would have no reason to go check status on the web interface.

 

[dlaloum]

I want a high SINAD audio Pre Processorwith DTS/Dolby already. Why is it so hard to get

My Denon is doing just fine, but still it's audio over HDMI and I have so much stuff in there I do not need.

It has been (almost universally) the case for 20+ years that pre-pros cost more than AVR's even when the prepro circuits are identical (and shared between the models).

So the best deal for those of us that seek primarily a prepro, is to get an AVR with the right number of processing channels and features, and use the pre-out's... although I must say, I find the inbuilt amps very handy for the surround and height speakers.

 

[ryanmh1]

This device has a severe power limiting mode and that makes it junk. If it cannot output rated power then it is useless.

Let's put this shibboleth to bed once and for all. Due to Amir's prior exemplary testing on the vsx-lx505, we know how long you get high power before it protects. About 35 seconds. And both ASR and Audioholics IIRC had issues around 40 watts or more for a long period. Typical rock music has a 10db crest factor. The unit clips at about 130 watts. A 10db increase requires 10x the power. That means your maximum average power without clipping is 10 watts. All of the extra power is to serve intermittent peaks. On a very compressed track, you might see a 7db dynamic range. 3db is a doubling of power. Hypothetically, that could permit a 20W average with clipping the amps. So what if you crank that up another 3db? 1) Your ears are bleeding, 2) the amps are clipping like crazy, 3) your speakers sound like trash and are about to melt, 4) the unit might go into protect, 5) it will be immediately audible as the unit is now clipping constantly.

And all that ONLY happens if a drop below 40W does not reset the timer. Crest factor is peak over average. It will dip lower. And this basically requires blasting rap or death metal. Or slipping with the volume, which will cause the receiver to save itself and your speakers. In normal use, on normal music, this will never happen. Ever. A 30W continuous output would result in at least 300W peaks, severely and audibly clipping the amplifiers.

That, I believe, is the real audio science behind this issue, and should explain why it is highly unlikely to be an issue.

EDIT: I did also point out that a typical 87dB reasonably priced speaker likely to be driven by a receiver will start compressing and sounding poor around 100db, typically. By 107db, or 100w, it's game over and the speaker has no very little additional peak SPLs to give. You really need some expensive, high excursion woofers to meaningfully change this equation, or very bassy, inefficient speakers. At that point, you've spent thousands on speakers and bought separates...

 

[Doodski]

shibboleth

Good word power...

 

[welwynnick]

I was about to leap to the defence of the poor TX-NR7100. I was going to say lets ignore Marketing and treat it as a 40Wpc receiver, no shame in that, and any short-term extra is a bonus. I was going to say how can you reasonably expect more for your $1000 when you have so many channels, and so many functions, there's hardly any money left to do anything right? Sure, you can spend more money on the TX-RZ70 and get better results, it's not like Onkyo don't know how to do it. Amir's tests did actually beat Onkyo's own THD+N spec - the same spec incidentally, for ALL of Onkyo's current receivers. How can it be reasonable to expect high performance and functionality for a low price? You're getting what you pay for, here, aren't you?

Then I looked at the other low cost receivers that Amir has tested. None of them looked good compared to stereo equipment, but the Sony ZA1100ES, and Denon X3600H of course, show what you can get for similar money. When I was the amplifier reviewer for AVForums I did a subjective review of the much older TX-SR608. The big review sites - What HiFi, Trusted Reviews, Tech Radar, Home Theater Review - all gave it four or five stars. It was the worst thing I had ever heard at the time, but I tried very hard to look on the up-side, and thought I was being generous by giving it three stars. I still got into a lot of trouble with the editor and the importer, and stopped reviewing shortly after that. It does sound like Onkyo haven't changed, and are still trying to get away with as little as possible.

 

[Buckchester]

This thing clips and then ends up outputting a fraction of its claimed power without obviously notifying the owner and some are defending it?

It's remarkable how many issues Amir has uncovered with audio electronics.