Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review

[tusc]

Dumb question. This receiver allows bi-amping the front speakers. Would this help eliminate distortion at 10 watts with 4 ohm speakers?

 

[Haint]

i kind of feel like these boxes of rapid obsolescence have kind of had their day

like do people out there care too much about 7.2 home theater any more? in a streaming world?

Do huh now? 95% of streaming services support Atmos. Like what are you even advocating as the alternative here? This "rapidly obsolete" box comes with full range Dirac Live out of the box which will shit all over any stereo amp or dac in actual real world use (most of which don't even have bass management or real subwoofer integration).

 

[dlaloum]

Dumb question. This receiver allows bi-amping the front speakers. Would this help eliminate distortion at 10 watts with 4 ohm speakers?

From my own personal experiments (comparing external amping with the Integra DRX3.4 twin... with either L/R externally powered or L/C/R) - I suspect that the issue is, the power supply running out of current...
BiAmping would still all be dependent on the same power supple... so chances are the distortion would be the same.

Removing some of the load off the internal PSU by running external amps resolves the audible issue from my own experience, but is only possible on the Integra version of this AVR not on the Onkyo or Pioneer versions... (The near identical siblings are Onkyo NR7100, Pioneer LX305 and Integra DRX 3.4 )

 

[Chrispy]

Dumb question. This receiver allows bi-amping the front speakers. Would this help eliminate distortion at 10 watts with 4 ohm speakers?

As with most speakers and avrs this is far more about marketing than any particular power advantage, let alone distortion.

 

[Bentail]

FYI

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Thanks for posting this. I ordered one and received it today. There is a lot of difference in the performance between this and the Onkyo TX-nr7100. The detail is much more pronounced. I understand the Integra has a better DAC, but not sure. It drives my 4 ohm Martin Logan Motion 40 speakers with ease in a 5.1 system. I just wanted to say thanks for putting me onto this deal.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks for posting this. I ordered one and received it today. There is a lot of difference in the performance between this and the Onkyo TX-nr7100. The detail is much more pronounced. I understand the Integra has a better DAC, but not sure. It drives my 4 ohm Martin Logan Motion 40 speakers with ease in a 5.1 system. I just wanted to say thanks for putting me onto this deal.

Sounds more like placebo than something that would be a particular difference between them.....detail means what particularly? Difference in level you tested at?

 

[welwynnick]

HTPC is dead as far as I'm concerned. Not because of Atmos - because of streaming. De facto current video and audio media distribution method is streaming, everything else is either dying, already dead and/or significantly less convenient to use. And each streaming platform has its own apps that don't integrate well into some common HTPC UI (e.g. Kodi), and some of these apps in their PC versions don't have the same features (like support for surround sound formats or download, for example) as their Android or iOS/iPadOS/tvOS counterparts. The result of this is unacceptably bad user experience. HTPC was great once all content were files on local disks or NAS but this time passed long time ago.

Google TV player with all the streaming apps and Kodi app (or VLC, or anything you like) for local content result in incomparably superior user experience. Probably the same is true about Apple TV (I have no experience with it).

To be honest I don't really care about HTPC, it was just an example of one way to get round poor AVR performance. You play a Blu-ray and output uncompressed LPCM over USB, Thunderbolt or Dante to an off-board multi channel DAC that is unencumbered with any audio or video digital signal processing, and performs much better as a result.

I believe that approach is moot with streaming because audio / video is lossy compressed , so an AVR is probably fine anyway.

 

[welwynnick]

Interesting. Are those hardware plugins? Or software plugins to Jriver? What surround formats could be decoded?

Either way - it seems a hell of a lot simpler just to use an AVR - and then you get Atmos also.

Software plug-ins. The subject originally arose because of discussion of the exorbitant cost of the top tier AV processors, and could there be another way using a combination of off-the-shelf hardware and software that could do a comparable job to a higher audio standard but at a lower cost? I think the conclusion is that it's reasonably straightforward with plain TrueHD / DTS MA 7.1 decoding, and you can get good results for modest money with say a MOTU Ultralite or Topping DM7.

Things get more difficult with Atmos, but a few people make it work, such as zzcraft. He has two solutions, one using an AVP, and another using an HTPC, both outputting Dante to an AES/EBU converter that drives an array of SMSL stereo DACs. For the PC he used Dolby Media Encoder and Music Media Helper to do the Atmos decoding and rendering and create multi channel wave pack. That generates up to 16 Atmos channels from lossless TrueHD soundtracks, not just the lossy compressed variant. PCs have half a dozen solutions for room correction, and the conversion can be done by SOTA DACs rather than an AVP or AVR.

So it can be done for a fraction of the price of a "big gun" AVP, but it's hardly a domestic solution, and I don't think it's something I'm going to be pursuing just yet.

 

[peng]

Yes - a thorough lab bench test at audioholics

Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review

The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?

www.audioholics.com

Actually, I was aware, and had read that review but for reason, momentarily forgot..

I was surprised to see the surround pre outs did much poorer, 86 dB SINAD vs 99 dB, though I do not believe it will make any audible difference. Just curious about if they upgraded the volume IC that D+M had done in 2016/17. If not, that would likely prevent it to reach the level of the C30 and X6800H, but again that's purely academic, as it is now, I would have no concerns using the RZ70 as a top choice prepro (if I need one).

 

[soaoga]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Onkyo TX-NR7100 8K 9.2 Channel THX certified Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $1,099.
View attachment 386235
Not much departure from the classic look of AVRs in the last 30 years. The on screen interface has been enhanced to be high resolution and is responsive. While some parts of it are intuitive, others are not. Options are grayed out at times with no indication as to why. For example I wanted to turn on Zone 2 audio but the option was gray. Reading the manual revealed that you have to first enable Multizone option to get access to that. I updated the firmware over the air and that went well. But when finished, it just told me on the AVR that the update was completed but then sat there locked up requiring a power cycle.

Back panel shows the puzzling inclusion of analog composite and component video:

View attachment 386236
I guess it is for folks who still pay their original Nintendo game console.

Onkyo TX-NR1700 Measurements
There is no pre-out so I could not test the performance of the main DACs. There is zone 2 so I went ahead and tested that:

View attachment 386237

The high level of distortion is embracingly poor if it is any indication of how the main DACs operate. For the rest of the tests, I went for full end to end performance starting with HDMI input:

View attachment 386238

This lands the unit next to its sister models from both Onkyo and Pioneer:
View attachment 386239
With most of its competitors in the "Green" category, this stagnant performance is not good. Performance is naturally similar with Toslink input (used for later tests):

View attachment 386240

Notice the noise variations to the left of our main tone which is absent when we use analog input:
View attachment 386241

Noise performance is in the same "fair" category, not reaching the target of 16 bits at 5 watts:
View attachment 386242

If you use direct/pure direct, system bandwidth is wide and flat as you expect:
View attachment 386243
If you do not, response truncates down to just 20 kHz (not shown) indicating everything is resampled down for processing.

Multitone has high noise floor and same ho-hum performance.
View attachment 386244

Same with 19 and 20 kHz intermodulation test:
View attachment 386245

Power testing is what got my blood pressure to shoot way up. Ran the sweep and got just 40 watts or so! I remembered the power limiting I had seen in previous units from Onkyo/Pioneer but had forgetting the cause. I updated the firmware and power cycled the unit as mentioned in introduction. I got full power then, remembering that if these units ever clip, they will stay in ECO mode of some sort until you remove the AC cable! I didn't recall the unit clipping however in this case. Here is 4 ohm test:
View attachment 386246

The 1% THD test pushes the amp into clipping often which meant it took a lot of effort to get the right measurement data:
View attachment 386247

Here is 8 ohm:
View attachment 386248

I let the power sweeps vs frequency clip and there, you can see the sudden power limiting as sweeps go from 15 kHz down to 20 Hz:
View attachment 386249

Note that there is no indication whatsoever that this mode is activated! The amp simply stays in this mode producing only 15% of its rated power until you power cycle it (it does NOT reset with power switch).

Conclusions
The TX-NR7100 delivers "OK" performance across my tests. The problem as I have noted in previous reviews of this shared platform between Onkyo/Pioneer is this severe power limiting mode. I have to think it is there to pass UL regulatory tests and hence the reason it doesn't even tell you that it has gone into this "limp" mode. Naturally there is no mention of it and even searching online won't clue you in this problem.

Based on this testing, I suspect many users are experiencing a fraction of the power this AVR is capable of without knowing it. Detecting/proving that it is doing this requires power sweep measurements which is outside of the abilities of almost every user of this AVR.

For above reason, I cannot recommend Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR or frankly, any AVR from Onkyo/Pioneer until they address this power problem.

----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

I was studying the purchase of the Onkyo 7100 and I stopped at this forum, in Brazil, could you tell me which firmware version the test unit has? Onkyo, latest firmware version: Firmware Update Onkyo TX-NR7100/TX-RZ50 (04-23-2024) We are pleased to offer this firmware update for the best possible performance of your Onkyo AV Receiver.This update may be installed via USB or Network.TX-NR7100/TX-RZ50 (Current Version R127-0712-0170-0031).

 

[amirm]

I was studying the purchase of the Onkyo 7100 and I stopped at this forum, in Brazil, could you tell me which firmware version the test unit has?

I had it update to the latest on the day I post the review. Didn't note the version number.

 

[DACs_Lover]

Want to see badly how Onkyo Rz-70 measured.

 

[soaoga]

Eu o atualizei para o mais recente no dia em que postei a revisão. Não anotei o número da versão. Grato pelo seu informe

Thanks for your response. I'm looking for a receiver to replace my Yamaha RX-A860 (it has had recurring problems making it impossible to use). You said you didn't recommend this Onkyo 7100 (it's the one I was looking to buy). Is the problem you described on the onkyo 7100 possible to fix via firmware or is it a hardware design error?

When searching online to buy a receiver, I find problems with almost all receivers. I was thinking about Denon, but I also found some versions with problems. So I end up not deciding which one to buy. My Yamaha served me for a long time until it started to fail and have problems. Newer Yamaha models are also having problems. Therefore, it becomes impossible to decide to buy.

 

[ryanmh1]

Without any preouts (except for the subwoofer) this is just a total shit show. Sadly I recall the day when Onkyo was the leading competitor in AVR’s. The bean counters now only won the fight with Engineering department but seemingly outsourced it into oblivion.

Thanks for the review Boss. I know these complicated AVR’s become time sucks on your test bench. Your hard work will benefit thousands of consumers who will avoid this product and dodge a bullet with lipstick.

This is ridiculous. This is a fabulous product, and possibly the best value in any AVR today for those who do not need preouts. . For well under a grand, the unit offers full Dirac room correction. This is so wildly more important to good sound than any perceived shortcomings. Name me one other unit that had this or XT32 for the price. I'll wait.

In actual use, the power limiting will affect almost *no one*. To properly test that, the unit should be used with music with a reasonable crest factor just below clipping. If it shuts down, then fine, there is a problem. If not, this is *objectively* not a problem. As dlaloum noted, virtually no actual user has noted an issue. I strongly suspect there is not one.

Price needs to be kept in mind. For the price, this is an unparalleled value. Most of the measured deficiencies are highly likely to be inaudible on an average system, anyway. That Dirac will make all the difference in the world though.

 

[beagleman]

This is ridiculous. This is a fabulous product, and possibly the best value in any AVR today for those who do not need preouts. . For well under a grand, the unit offers full Dirac room correction. This is so wildly more important to good sound than any perceived shortcomings. Name me one other unit that had this or XT32 for the price. I'll wait.

In actual use, the power limiting will affect almost *no one*. To properly test that, the unit should be used with music with a reasonable crest factor just below clipping. If it shuts down, then fine, there is a problem. If not, this is *objectively* not a problem. As dlaloum noted, virtually no actual user has noted an issue. I strongly suspect there is not one.

Price needs to be kept in mind. For the price, this is an unparalleled value. Most of the measured deficiencies are highly likely to be inaudible on an average system, anyway. That Dirac will make all the difference in the world though.

Good point.
This may be (at least to some degree) something that matters and at the same time, does not matter so much in real world use.

I realize Amir is very strapped for time, (Hence no music listening) but while the protection thing sounds "Severely broken", I do have to wonder if in actual normal usage it would rear its head?
As you say virtually no users have had the issue............

 

[andrewskaterrr]

AVRs don't support G-Sync and FreeSync, neither do televisions. So that is pointless. Unofficial VRR also isn't reliable. I have several HDMI 2.0 splitters, cables and switches. None of them allow me to use VRR/Freesync on my Xbox together with my Freesync monitor.

I wasn’t taking about the AVR supporting it, I was talking about the HDMI cable version supporting allowing it. The AVR going from 2.0 to 2.1 was what was being discussed, and thus VRR being officially supported. That’s why I was saying we had forms of VRR in 2.0.

 

[kyuu]

As you say virtually no users have had the issue............

There could be a number of users who have encountered the power limiting issue without realizing. As Amir noted, the unit does not advertise when it goes into this undocumented state.

Everyone is free to make their own value judgement, and if you ignore its deficiencies, the NR7100 does have a fair amount of value. Included Dirac is certainly nice. For me, however, I would not excuse Onkyo's sloppy engineering and the frankly unforgivable decision to have the AVR go into an undocumented power limiting status, hidden from the user, where you are not getting what Onkyo advertises. It's deceptive and casts the company in a very poor light, IMO.

I would spend a few hundred more on a refurb Denon X3800H.

 

[sealman]

There could be a number of users who have encountered the power limiting issue without realizing. As Amir noted, the unit does not advertise when it goes into this undocumented state.

Everyone is free to make their own value judgement, and if you ignore its deficiencies, the NR7100 does have a fair amount of value. Included Dirac is certainly nice. For me, however, I would not excuse Onkyo's sloppy engineering and the frankly unforgivable decision to have the AVR go into an undocumented power limiting status, hidden from the user, where you are not getting what Onkyo advertises. It's deceptive and casts the company in a very poor light, IMO.

I would spend a few hundred more on a refurb Denon X3800H.

I agree only because I won't buy a receiver unless it has at least 7.X preouts.
However if preouts are not a concern then the refurb for 650.00 on A4L is very attractive with the included Dirac!

 

[soaoga]

After staying all night, in the morning I managed to revive my RX-A860, I was happy about that, as I like my rx-a860. This is my receiver, a little old (2016) but it serves me well.

XXL-TEST: 7.2-Kanal-AV-Netzwerk-Receiver Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A860 – So gut ist die 1.000 EUR-Klasse 2016 – AREA DVD

Yamaha stellte vor kurzem verschiedene neue AV-Receiver-Modelle der Top-Serie "AVENTAGE" vor. Hohe Klangqualität, umfassende Ausstattung und MusicCast an Bord s

www.areadvd.de

 

[ryanmh1]

I realize Amir is very strapped for time, (Hence no music listening) but while the protection thing sounds "Severely broken", I do have to wonder if in actual normal usage it would rear its head?
As you say virtually no users have had the issue............

Reports in the field appear to be nil. I explained in the RZ50 thread why it ought to be immediately obvious if it happened, and why it is unlikely ever to happen. Audioholics observed the same performance, and based on when it happens, and how, you would need to be severely overdriving or overtaxing things, assuming typical program content. My recollection is that it took a few seconds of very high current demands to trip. Real consumer program material doesn't do that. And if you were causing such demands the power drop would be immediately obvious. Is the reset behavior ideal? No, but if you abuse this thing so hard you trip it, you deserve to have your toys taken away anyhow.

I mean, you're getting a Dirac license and over 100 useful watts on multiple channels. Just what do people want for under a grand? Or like $500 for a refurb. I almost bought one, but needed preouts and Dynamic EQ, so bought a used Denon that cost me almost that. I will go out on a limb and say you will cannot get better sound in room, for 100W 6 ohm speakers for this money, on a new unit or combination of "stuff" that will do what this does period. Because Dirac.