I have VRR, G-Sync, FreeSync disabled because I could never get used to the Gamma Flicker, but G-Sync sure works with my 3700x if I wanted to. No frame drops, no issues - just the in-design-fault of said gamma flicker.
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Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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This is amazing.
There was a thread a few days ago asking the question, is Marantz dead?. I think the same question applies to Onkyo/Pioneer. If I understand the ownership correctly, they are nothing more than an asset property being held until such time they can be let go. I'm all in favor of profit, but I think we can conclude that a re-organization or redesign of products would be deemed by the bean counters to be not very cost effective, essentially forcing these two companies to be sold at scrap metal prices.
beagleman
Major Contributor
I can easily say the same thing about my Yamaha Aventage AVR, and add with remote, and VERY usable Parametric EQ for all channels and a dozen other things, it easily outdoes stuff I have owned that was far higher priced.
Heck even my lowly entry level Yamaha for all intents sounds completely listenable, and never feel like it lacks in any way!
beagleman
Major Contributor
I still say the biggest obstacle, is people expect too much.
Multi-channel DACs, EQ, Room correction, surround modes, Remote control and a ton of inputs and options, let alone 5, 7 or 9 channels of pre-amps and power amps, simply cost a lot to produce.
Most of the truly great performing AVRs or multi-channel stuff is priced where the average person feels it is a waste, or would not truly provide a "real room" advantage for their mild to moderate TV and gaming and movie use.
We all "Want" better performing stuff, but I think the reality, most are not willing to pay what it costs.
We smirk at $1,500 and under AVRs, and consequently say $5,000 AVRs are a waste or money.
Both groups have been primarily re-issuing the same chassis and core design for around a decade now - there have been feature updates, but these have mainly been software, not hardware...
At the top end, the flagship models seem to show more engineering effort... the A1 & A10, RZ70.
The mass market models get minor updates to support the latest updated chipsets, while keeping everything else pretty much the same... The software base is licenced from Dolby, and DTS... with the biggest change having been the enabling of Dirac on their platforms over the last 3 years - all software (probably partly enabled by processor chipsets becoming more efficient over time)
I am happy to see that they are now using the ES9026Pro DAC IC that has much better specs than the previously used PCM5102A, or even the much loved AK4458 that D+M were using. The 9026pro is not reference class, but it is comparable/slightly better than Marantz C30/Denon X6800H's ES9017. The only thing I am not sure if the volume control IC, D+M's dedicated IC, the NJU72343 is really good. If the RZ70 preout would measured better than 100 dB SINAD, then they must have upgraded the volume IC also. Have you seen any measurements done on the RZ70, or the Pioneer, Integra equivalents yet?
That is fantastic performance. You have to pay more but if people want a decent, good surround system you have to pay more than $400. Over 100 watts per channel for all 7 channels. That makes me feel good!
That might be hard as I believe the boards now are multi layer and the traces a very small. Restorer John or I think Doodski might be able to respond better as I am out of date. (By 25 years!!)
popej
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Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review
The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?
www.audioholics.com
master_arthur
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Why is the protect mode not activated during normal usage?
I would think that if the AVR is producing only 15% of the power it would be easy to detect?
What is different in the test that causes it to trigger?
Obviously Onkyo put in this feature for a reason. They are getting bashed a lot because of it. I would love to know their reasoning.
I would think that if the AVR is producing only 15% of the power it would be easy to detect?
What is different in the test that causes it to trigger?
Obviously Onkyo put in this feature for a reason. They are getting bashed a lot because of it. I would love to know their reasoning.
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ban25
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Additionally, PAC has now reintroduced the AK4458 in their new DTM-7.4 stereo receiver (which this site has in for review) and the Onkyo-badged equivalent.
Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review
The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?
popej
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This was not a protection mode. Please notice Amir's statement:
Maybe this was a buggy eco mode? Did it happen 30 minutes after power on?
master_arthur
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Post #74 explains the terminology. Onkyo calls the power limiting mode "protected" mode.
I think we are both tiptoeing around an empirical question: how much investment (both in terms of engineering effort and BOM) would it take for a major AVR maker to significantly improve performance on things like SINAD? I don't know, but I suspect that a few well-targeted engineer-months (or maybe even weeks) would move the needle without a significant impact on BOM.I still say the biggest obstacle, is people expect too much.
Multi-channel DACs, EQ, Room correction, surround modes, Remote control and a ton of inputs and options, let alone 5, 7 or 9 channels of pre-amps and power amps, simply cost a lot to produce.
Most of the truly great performing AVRs or multi-channel stuff is priced where the average person feels it is a waste, or would not truly provide a "real room" advantage for their mild to moderate TV and gaming and movie use.
We all "Want" better performing stuff, but I think the reality, most are not willing to pay what it costs.
We smirk at $1,500 and under AVRs, and consequently say $5,000 AVRs are a waste or money.
Even if I'm right, that cost still needs to be amortized across the units sold. So the follow-on question is whether the market would reward the higher-priced, higher-performance AVR. It would certainly get my vote and my dollars, but I admit that the market may not currently be structured to reward such a choice.
HTPC is dead as far as I'm concerned. Not because of Atmos - because of streaming. De facto current video and audio media distribution method is streaming, everything else is either dying, already dead and/or significantly less convenient to use. And each streaming platform has its own apps that don't integrate well into some common HTPC UI (e.g. Kodi), and some of these apps in their PC versions don't have the same features (like support for surround sound formats or download, for example) as their Android or iOS/iPadOS/tvOS counterparts. The result of this is unacceptably bad user experience. HTPC was great once all content were files on local disks or NAS but this time passed long time ago.
Google TV player with all the streaming apps and Kodi app (or VLC, or anything you like) for local content result in incomparably superior user experience. Probably the same is true about Apple TV (I have no experience with it).
popej
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It is pretty lame, that AVRs do not support multichannel streaming. Kodi can do multichannel DLNA, Sony bluray supports multichannel files on USB. As for AVR, the best is build-in Chromecast. It supports 5.1 Dolby Digital by downmixing to stereo! This is probably the case with 7100.
Ajax
Senior Member
About 20 years ago I had a Rotel 1066 processor that I combined with a Rotel RMB-1075 (120wrms/5ch) power amp for my home theatre system - loved it and only sold it as part of the deal on my house. Rotel made (make?) great gear at reasonable prices.
IME consumers would get a much better outcome if manufactures with the know how just concentrated on developing great processors with all the necessary DSP etc, which would allow us to purchase separate power amps of between 4-8 channels combined with a couple of active subs. Anything with hypex modules from Buckeye, VTV, Audiophonics etc. would work well.
From Amir's measurements and comments here I get the sense that they are simply trying to cramp too much electronics into one box.
IME consumers would get a much better outcome if manufactures with the know how just concentrated on developing great processors with all the necessary DSP etc, which would allow us to purchase separate power amps of between 4-8 channels combined with a couple of active subs. Anything with hypex modules from Buckeye, VTV, Audiophonics etc. would work well.
From Amir's measurements and comments here I get the sense that they are simply trying to cramp too much electronics into one box.
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Yes - a thorough lab bench test at audioholics
Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review
The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?
www.audioholics.com
This is part of the confusion.... the "nanny" mode that reduces power, is in fact called the "protect" mode by Onkyo, and is monitored in the web interface. (and you can only exit that protection mode via a shutdown restart)
Traditional "protection" is also built in, and if you short the speaker outputs, the AVR will shutdown... this is also a "protection".
But the two are distinct and seperate things.
If you put the AVR into 4 ohm mode, it behaves the same way it does in "protect" mode
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