Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

People who still get and enjoy legacy video devices for whatever reasons that suit them understand the legacy video connectors!

For 550?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

i kind of feel like these boxes of rapid obsolescence have kind of had their day

like do people out there care too much about 7.2 home theater any more? in a streaming world?

Yes.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

My AVR is mainly used for gaming and watching movies, which is now the main function of AVR. AVR is now mainly focused on image processing, and the latest models generally support 8K, but there are hardly any 8K devices and resources available to use now.

When it comes to listening to music, the AVR is not even as effective as the $100 FOSI.

AVRs aren’t focused on image processing, they don’t do anything to it other than the option of an upscaler. Adding the HDMI 2.1 port doesn’t mean it’s about “image processing”. Also, 2.1 is useful for 4k/120hz gaming, which may be its most used feature. There are some people that buy 8k tvs, but I mostly hear 4k/120hz being the main goal of getting 2.1. That’s why I upgraded my pre/pro with the 2.1 board too.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I'm getting a little tired of those AVR boxes that try to stuff as much low-efficiency A/B Class amplifier channels on undersized heatsinks, with a traditionnal old-fashioned, large and heavy power transformer. Just to find out that half of those AVR have agressive power limiters to prevent them from getting too hot when actually using them for what they are sold as.

However, I'm glad to see new ranges using modern D Class amplifiers and SMPS like the new JBL AVR range. I hope to see more of them in the near-future.

Half?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Further proof that, while reviews of the parade of incredibly high-value Chinese DACs, digital power amplifiers and IEMs keep proving that superb 2-channel performance can now be had for peanuts, even moderately performant home theater equipment is still both rare and, with few exceptions, very expensive.

Having discovered the joys of multichannel music, I am increasingly annoyed that it remains prohibitive to build a system of even roughly comparable quality to a decent 2-channel setup.

I know these must take a long time to test, Amir. But I think the greatest service you could provide would be to find reasonably priced, competently designed AVRs to share with us -- or, if none are to be found, to agitate for manufacturers to up their game.

These reviews agitate.

 

[antcollinet]

You can use the Topping DM7 with a USB connection from an HTPC.

If you want to use HDMI out of any source, use an HDMI audio extractor like the AES/EBU version of the Audiopraise VanityPRO and drive an Octo DAC8.

These solutions work very well for 7.1 systems - much better SQ than any AVP. If you want Atmos, it's more complicated and more expensive

Again - how are you decoding the surround formats without at least a home theatre pre/pro? Decoding on a PC is a mess of incapability.

 

[CapMan]

I know these must take a long time to test, Amir. But I think the greatest service you could provide would be to find reasonably priced, competently designed AVRs to share with us -- or, if none are to be found, to agitate for manufacturers to up their game.

He has recommended several, many have been mentioned already in this thread. I think you do Denon and Marantz a disservice by suggesting that they are incompetent in their designs. They are not SOTA on some measures (that many would say are not audible) but as a single box that processes multi channel audio, video at ultra high resolution and can apply high quality room correction they do a lot right.

 

[dtomsen]

Regarding Class D amplification in surround receivers there is the Canton Smart Amp 5.1 besides the aforementioned new MA-series from JBL. So such things do exist.

Canton even have a petit AV preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, the Canton Smart Connect 5.1.

 

[welwynnick]

Again - how are you decoding the surround formats without at least a home theatre pre/pro? Decoding on a PC is a mess of incapability.

It's not something I have any interest in pursuing any further myself, but I know someone in the UK who just starting doing exactly that. The objective was to get stereo sound quality from multi channel playback.

He used to play Blu-rays on his PC using JRiver Media Centre, sending bitstream audio on HDMI to a Denon AVR-X4400, then line level outputs to his 5.1.2 Genelec active speakers.

He switched to PC decoding with additional plug-ins, and feeding multi channel LPCM audio over USB to a MOTU Ultralite MkV 8 channel audio interface, then line level to 5.1 speakers. FWIW he thought the improvement in sound quality more than offset the loss of the height channels.

We both tried hard to find a way to perform Atmos decoding in a PC. The best prospect seemed to be using Dolby Atmos Renderer. This would have to run on one of seven compatible Digital Audio Workstations, like Avid Pro Tools, running Thunderbolt or a Dante Virtual Soundcard to a compatible interface like MTRX Studio, but we can't see a viable solution at the moment. Shame.

 

[CapMan]

FWIW he thought the improvement in sound quality more than offset the loss of the height channels.

How did he assess the two setups - double blind, multiple iterations, level matched.

My lesson in HiFi life is that the perceived improvement in sound is entirely commensurate to the amount of energy, time and expense one puts into making a system change (from changing a box to rewiring the mains supply) !

One thing is certain - Amir is never going to measure the home brew solution so we will never objectively know how it performs

 

[welwynnick]

How did he assess the two setups - double blind, multiple iterations, level matched.

I don't see how you can be objective about comparing immersive with surround sound. There's no right answer, there's no measurement you can do, it has to be purely subjective. That's why I said FWIW, anticipating this response.

My lesson in HiFi life is that the perceived improvement in sound is entirely commensurate to the amount of energy, time and expense one puts into making a system change (from changing a box to rewiring the mains supply) !

That's the power of expectation bias. But it doesn't always happen that way. After years of looking and eager anticipation I found and bought a Parasound HCA-2205A power amp. It was designed by John Curl, everyone said it sounded great and it looked the part. I couldn't wait to hear it. I compared it with a number of other power amps, and it sounded the worst of the lot. So yes, perceptions often fall into line with expectation, but not always. I'm not going to say any more on that matter at all.

One thing is certain - Amir is never going to measure the home brew solution so we will never objectively know how it performs

I think he bought the MOTU partly because of Amir's test. That was tested with USB input, and it performed better than any AVR or AVP. I don't think there's anything contentious about replacing a mediocre AVR with a good quality DAC. My point was that you don't necessarily have to put up with disappointing AVR performance.

 

[Sputnik]

(which can be monitored via the web interface).

Amir already replied directly to you (post 56) that this is not true.

 

[Hipocrates]

Canton even have a petit AV preamplifier with Dolby Atmos

Oh that's pretty! I can use that since my AVR died a while ago... thanks for share!

 

[dlaloum]

Amir already replied directly to you (post 56) that this is not true.

And as I pointed out, he is wrong

 

[Koeitje]

My AVR is mainly used for gaming and watching movies, which is now the main function of AVR. AVR is now mainly focused on image processing, and the latest models generally support 8K, but there are hardly any 8K devices and resources available to use now.

When it comes to listening to music, the AVR is not even as effective as the $100 FOSI.

While 8K support doesn't matter for gaming, HDMI 2.1 is an absolute must for gaming because you want your AVR to be able to handle VRR signals.

But AVRs don't process images, they just pass it through and extract the audio stream.

AVRs aren’t focused on image processing, they don’t do anything to it other than the option of an upscaler. Adding the HDMI 2.1 port doesn’t mean it’s about “image processing”. Also, 2.1 is useful for 4k/120hz gaming, which may be its most used feature. There are some people that buy 8k tvs, but I mostly hear 4k/120hz being the main goal of getting 2.1. That’s why I upgraded my pre/pro with the 2.1 board too.

VRR is probably much more important than 4K120. Without VRR pretty much all console games that do 4K120 will look like a stuttery mess because they can't provide a fixed 120 fps framerate. Hell, even 4K60 games look like a mess due to all the uneven frame pacing in almost every single game out there.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Denon - AVR-X4800H was recommended by Amir and is $2350 in Best Buy right now, so probably can be found cheaper on sale.

Thanks, this is a valid & helpful suggestion. FWIW, In Canada where I am, it's CAD 3300 from Amazon.ca or Bestbuy.ca. In practical terms I think I'd be constrained to go for the AVR-X3800H; it is CAD 2250 and has a full set of 'pre-outs' which would permit me to use SOTA class D amp for LR channels

To be technical, I was taking about USD2k was an SOTA pre-pro. Denon, per Amir's testing, are about the best AVRs, but they come up a bit short of SOTA.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Regarding Class D amplification in surround receivers there is the Canton Smart Amp 5.1 besides the aforementioned new MA-series from JBL. So such things do exist.

Canton even have a petit AV preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, the Canton Smart Connect 5.1.

View attachment 386416

Thanks!! The Canton Smart Connect 5.1 would work VERY well for me but there is apparently no dealer in Canada ... SAD.

 

[Colonel7]

Thanks!! The Canton Smart Connect 5.1 would work VERY well for me but there is apparently no dealer in Canada ... SAD.

IIRC, there were a couple members here who bought this and regretted it. Setting aside SINAD, the canton had trouble functioning, although my memory may be wrong

 

[CapMan]

Thanks!! The Canton Smart Connect 5.1 would work VERY well for me but there is apparently no dealer in Canada ... SAD.

What room correction system does it use ?

 

[popej]

I could do that with either volume control or source level. In prior tests, they produce the same performance.

Thank for clarification.