Onkyo PR-RZ5100 AV Processor Review

[digicidal]

Way too big. We already have in the market many processors with many inputs. 1 eARC and a few outputs is missing.

Oh I agree with that completely, but it seems unlikely to ever happen. Despite the fact that we now live in a world where physical media is considered anachronistic... everyone is still selling processors that expect an entire rack of players to be connected.

If I could get a nice 2U processor with just 2-3 HDMI, DIRAC, and one analog input with a 7.2 (reconfigurable to 5.4) XLR outputs, and LAN for Roon... I'd pay a premium for the reclaimed shelf real estate.

 

[Mocs123]

Oh I agree with that completely, but it seems unlikely to ever happen. Despite the fact that we now live in a world where physical media is considered anachronistic... everyone is still selling processors that expect an entire rack of players to be connected.

If I could get a nice 2U processor with just 2-3 HDMI, DIRAC, and one analog input with a 7.2 (reconfigurable to 5.4) XLR outputs, and LAN for Roon... I'd pay a premium for the reclaimed shelf real estate.

I have no idea how it performs, but the Acurus MUSE might be close to what you are looking for.

 

[sresener]

This review does not surprise me. I use a txrz 1100 for movies and my smsl su8 v2 out performs it by a very very large margin.

 

[gvl]

My first and last Onkyo experience wasn't a happy one. The AVR I got had the infamous Onkyo HDMI issues and it was promptly returned. I stayed away from Onkyo since then. It appears I didn't miss much.

 

[amirm]

Here is the RCA output performance as requested:

As you see, it is the same performance as XLR at 2 volts. Likewise, dashboard SINAD did not change (not shown).

 

[QMuse]

Here is the RCA output performance as requested:

View attachment 60933

As you see, it is the same performance as XLR at 2 volts. Likewise, dashboard SINAD did not change (not shown).

Thank you!

Unfortunately this confirms that SNR wise this product is far from specs. What a shame.

Btw, dropping this much out of spec is IMO worse than TotalCRAP products as most of them stay within their spec so user gets what he/she has agreed to, but in this case it is pretty much the same scam as those "audio" grade switches and USB "purifiers".

 

[digicidal]

I have no idea how it performs, but the Acurus MUSE might be close to what you are looking for.

Thanks for the suggestion... it does look fantastic. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay that much of a premium however (seems like >$8K from what I found).

EDIT: I see that's the big brother... it looks like the lesser one is only $5.5K... that's getting in range. Maybe see if I can get one in a deal if the JBL models don't materialize soon. Make that "materialize with everything working"... the AVS thread on the SDP-55 is a bit horrifying at the moment.

 

[peng]

Here is the RCA output performance as requested:

View attachment 60933

As you see, it is the same performance as XLR at 2 volts. Likewise, dashboard SINAD did not change (not shown).

This should be expected (I absolutely did) but it is good for all to see, so thank you for doing it as requested by others. I have the advantage of having read almost every single S&V reviews on AVPs and AVRs in the past 10 years+. I have never (might have missed/forgot 1 or 2 max) seen XLR outperformed RCA in their measurements by more than 1 to 2 dB, sometimes, in fact iirc more often than not their RCA results did slightly, very slightly better in SNR and that I could never figure out why, probably just a statistical kind of various due to tolerances that might have varied minutely between measurements.

So now this is confirmed, it would beat the $1,099 Denon at 2 V RCA or 4 V XLR, but would still lose at a very high margin at 1.4 V RCA. Since you measured the Deon's center channel (whoever's great idea) that has no amp disconnect cheat, at 75 dB 2 V, that's only a few dB lower than the Onkyo's, so for practical use, I would say 99% (based on 2 V max) of the time the Denon would offer a cleaner signal when paired with pair amps rated up to 400 WPC 29 dB gain or 200 WPC 26 dB gain. No brainer for me, AVR for sure, as I don't use XLR even though I can if I want to.

 

[A.West]

Thanks for the suggestion... it does look fantastic. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay that much of a premium however (seems like >$8K from what I found).

EDIT: I see that's the big brother... it looks like the lesser one is only $5.5K... that's getting in range. Maybe see if I can get one in a deal if the JBL models don't materialize soon. Make that "materialize with everything working"... the AVS thread on the SDP-55 is a bit horrifying at the moment.

I looked at a lonely users thread for the MUSE and it is horrifying. Basically some guy with bad English talking to himself trying to convince himself he didn't make a huuuge mistake buying it. Major bugs that take years to fix, a room correction system of unknown quality that was vaporware for months and costs an extra $3,000 without any instructions. Emailed questions not answered.This is the risk of low volume production units with small companies. By the time your expensive beta testing is over, your HDMI inputs and outputs are probably outdated. And who knows if there are even discernable audio benefits in reward for the suffering. It appears to be made for new home theater custom installations that the dealer sets up and programs once, and the user never knows its in his AV closet until it malfunctions.

 

[Mocs123]

I just saw it and looked like was what you were looking for. It seems that all the 16 channel pre-pro's are plagued by bugs and software issues. I'm guessing they will eventually get it sorted out, but it would be pretty hard to pay $5K and feel like a beta-tester.

 

[Lbstyling]

I can't get over how Its just sooooo much money for such poor performance. I knew this hobby was a rip off in many ways, but this is just shameful from such a big company that can buy components so cheap! where does that money go?! Someone gets it!

 

[Krobar]

Another enlightening review, thank you Amir and thank you JGirado for sending it in.

Its a shame I live so far away and it is so heavy as I have an Integra Research RDC-7.1; one of the most expensive Onkyo prepros ever. It has a lovely case

 

[eycatcher]

Like some of the integra's, The previous generation Onkyo TX-NR and PR-SC units that used some of the first 32bit version of the PCM1795 implementations of the Burr Brown and even the 24bit PCM1796's basically one pair per channel performed the best. They used dual differential dac pairs per channel instead of a multichannel DAC. They also had about 3 - 32bit DSP chips and 2-4 independent power supplies one for video, one for audio, and in the receivers they had one for amplification, some torodial. I miss when the were built like that. Even the Yamaha, Denon and Marantz of those days were built with japanese engineering prior. They sure don't make em like they used to.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Damn! Had high hopes for this as the Integra DRX-4.3 (= Onkyo RZ740) did decent in Genes review/bench, and this being lot more expensive unit.
https://www.audioholics.com/av-rece...-4.2-drx-4.3-listening-bench-tests-conclusion

RZ5100 has the highest THX® Ultra2™ Plus Certification, which doesn´t seem to help. How can we contact Onkyo engineers?! They need to wake up!

Well next up is Arcam AVR390! Fingers crossed Arcam shows some magic. Amp side is likely weak though..

 

[Krobar]

Like some of the integra's, The previous generation Onkyo TX-NR and PR-SC units that used some of the first 32bit version of the PCM1795 implementations of the Burr Brown and even the 24bit PCM1796's basically one pair per channel performed the best. They used dual differential dac pairs per channel instead of a multichannel DAC. They also had about 3 - 32bit DSP chips and 2-4 independent power supplies one for video, one for audio, and in the receivers they had one for amplification, some torodial. I miss when the were built like that. Even the Yamaha, Denon and Marantz of those days were built with japanese engineering prior. They sure don't make em like they used to.

Yeah those were the last few proper flagships. The earlier RDC-7 used the 1796s for the LR channels and multi channel DACs for the others. The RDC-7.1 was the final Integra Research Prepro, it supported 2 7.1 zones, multiple power supplies, modular cards and had a "Custom Apogee clock" (I still don't know what that is but I must have thought I needed at the time it as I bought one).

I'd still love to see a Denon AVP-A1HD tested (I have one of these in the attic too), these were the probably the most ambitious over engineered prepro D+M ever made and the recession that followed seems to have killed off any real successors from them. The noise floor on these still holds up well so I'm going to risk a guess that they will do better than the Onkyo.

 

[North_Sky]

Like some of the integra's, The previous generation Onkyo TX-NR and PR-SC units that used some of the first 32bit version of the PCM1795 implementations of the Burr Brown and even the 24bit PCM1796's basically one pair per channel performed the best. They used dual differential dac pairs per channel instead of a multichannel DAC. They also had about 3 - 32bit DSP chips and 2-4 independent power supplies one for video, one for audio, and in the receivers they had one for amplification, some torodial. I miss when the were built like that. Even the Yamaha, Denon and Marantz of those days were built with japanese engineering prior. They sure don't make em like they used to.

Onkyo 5100 (11.2-channel):

"The PR-RZ5100 uses two different models of AKM DAC chips.

The AKM4490 two channel DAC is used for the L and R channels. This is the same chip that Denon/Marantz uses in the $4.5k AV8805 (and its predecessor the AV8802) and $4.0k X8500H (and its predecessor the X7200H).

The remain channels are handled by two AKM eight channel DAC chips, the AKM4458. This is AKM's best eight channel unit. It used in all of the upper Denon/Marantz AVR's and AVP's except the two units mentioned above. It is an excellent chip with distortion and noise perhaps 3dB worse than the AKM4490. Other than the two units noted above, a typical upper-level AVR or AVP uses two eight channel DAC chips. The AKM4490 is a net added chip just for the L and R channels. The size capacitors recommended by AKM for minimum distortion are used with all the DAC's.

As import as the DAC chips are to overall sound quality is the circuitry after the chip. The PR-RZ5100 uses as good or better JRC opamps for the filtering circuitry after the DAC chip as other upper-end units. All DAC's require output filters. The filtering circuitry uses five opamps where most units use one. The unit uses the same Rohm volume control chips that Yamaha uses. The other choice for a volume control at this level would be the top chip from JRC that's used by Denon/Marantz. It's a tossup which is better.

All of the RCA outputs are driven by the same opamps as the filter circuitry. The XLR's are driven by opamps with more output capability. All the opamps in the unit operate from 12V or 15V power supplies. Not all opamps in other units run at these higher voltages. The opamps provide better performance at higher voltages. The higher voltage supplies can (and are) be filtered (RC) on the way to the opamps to remove noise. Lower supply voltages, 7V is often seen, don't allow enough headroom for this filtering."
_____

Older Onkyo/Integra AV receivers and pre/pros (7.1-channel) used five (5) stereo DACs (BB PCM-1796), one stereo DAC per two channels (upper echelon models). The fifth stereo DAC is called C2 and SW2. Explanation below ... For example:

"The TXSR805 have ten DACs, not the prerequisite eight (F C R SW SR SL SRB SRL). At first, I thought the extra two had something to do with the second room option; but, they do not connect to the second room bus. The extra two signals produced by the DACs are called c2 (center 2) and sw2 (sub woofer 2). These are fed into a mixer to produce a two-channel analog output from the multi-channel HDMI or SPDIF entering the receiver. This mode appears to be used only when the front speakers are active in the room. The c2 and sw2 feed the left-channel mixer. The regular center and subwoofer signals go to the right-channel mixer and nowhere else. Adding an extra pair of DACs and the associated analog support circuitry is expensive. Normally the standard center and subwoofer signals could be adopted for both the left and right channel mixers and I am uncertain what additional functions are being accomplished here to require this complex implementation. Obviously, the Onkyo engineers implemented the design for good reason, but they have yet to respond to my inquiries."
_____

The ones after that (9.2-channel) used six (6) stereo DACs (BB PCM-1795).
Half of one stereo DAC (the 6th one) unused. That's for the higher end models, also from yesteryears. And they had three (3) DSP chips for the numbers crunching (Texas Instruments).

* Stay safe aim high aim right aim straight aim direct to the target ...

 

[Krobar]

Damn! Had high hopes for this as the Integra DRX-4.3 (= Onkyo RZ740) did decent in Genes review/bench, and this being lot more expensive unit.
https://www.audioholics.com/av-rece...-4.2-drx-4.3-listening-bench-tests-conclusion

RZ5100 has the highest THX® Ultra2™ Plus Certification, which doesn´t seem to help. How can we contact Onkyo engineers?! They need to wake up!

Well next up is Arcam AVR390! Fingers crossed Arcam shows some magic. Amp side is likely weak though..

Just a quick note about the Arcam you may need to enable "CD Direct" to stop it clipping the start of the PCM tests (As was seen in the Monoprice testing).

 

[audioBliss]

Just a quick note about the Arcam you may need to enable "CD Direct" to stop it clipping the start of the PCM tests (As was seen in the Monoprice testing).

Also it's important to run the latest firmware..even that has bugs though but not as bad.

 

[amirm]

AccuEQ review just posted: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/onkyo-accueq-room-eq-review.12991/

I will be shipping this box to its owner tomorrow. So please, no more requests!

 

[amirm]

Just a quick note about the Arcam you may need to enable "CD Direct" to stop it clipping the start of the PCM tests (As was seen in the Monoprice testing).

Good to know, thanks.