Onkyo Icon P‑80 + M‑80 World First Unboxing and Preview

[Toni71]

No time to measure yet. Two new subs, not connected . When I have time, I probably can answer this.

Edit: I will take a measurement today. A fast one, just to see what it is doing with the subs.

This week my NOS Technics SL1200mk4 turntable arrives, bought at a Technics specialist here. We will see if the phono connection in the Onkyo is doing his job.

---

 

[Snoopy]

I'm quite disappointed with the construction; as you can see, the two devices use the same motherboard, which is decidedly unpopular in the preamp. Even at these levels, geared towards superior hi-fi, the amp deserves a dual-mono configuration or at least two separate heatsinks and transistors. Maybe 10,000 x 4 capacitors, and last but not least, if I look at the layout of my old TX 708, it's the same school but from 15 years ago, with a laminated transformer and not a toroidal one... mmmmmm... high expectations, but disappointed in many respects. These are perfectly ordinary devices that are dressed up in a "party dress" embellished with splendid VU meters, but take a look at its 90s predecessor; in comparison, it seems like a McIntosh.

Exactly what I was about to write.. fancy case with something that looks like entry level AV receiver stuff on the inside.. oh boy. Glad I didn’t get a P80 after all.

 

[l_lama]

Glad I didn’t get a P80 after all.

It is mostly streamer and DAC, and as such, it does not need all the hardware you've used to see in pricey AB-class amplifiers.
I wouldn't be surprised if measurements will be decent after all.

 

[Toni71]

After measuring with Dirac twice on the PC and uploading the filters to the Onkyo, I tried adjusting the filter curves in the Onkyo app. However, this doesn’t work, when I click on it, it says there are no measurement parameters to adjust ( I see the filename there) and that I should connect the microphone to measure again.

This way of measuring should work, as the manual states that you can use either Android or PC.

The big question: in Dirac Live on the pc, I can independently adjust the frequency response of the subwoofers. But as soon as I enable Bass Management / DLBC, that option disappears. I can still group the two front speakers separately, but it seems I cannot set the subs independently anymore.

When I’m in Dirac Live and set Sub 1 to 200 Hz and Sub 2 to 250 Hz (just for testing), the values stay as they are. But once I enable DLBC, it automatically applies the higher crossover frequency to both subs. I guess, the subs are not independent then?

Tommorow, I will measure again with the included mic attached to the unit, instead of the Umik.

Edit: the Umik 1 measurement doesn't work. The Onkyo mic measurement works.

 

[l_lama]

Edit: the Umik 1 measurement doesn't work. The Onkyo mic measurement works.

Could you please elaborate about UMIK-1 and proprietary microphone?
Does use of Onkyo's microphone let you have dedicated corrections for each of your subwoofers?

 

[Toni71]

The following is with both microphones.

In the Dirac software on the pc, I see Dirac live/ Bass management/ Bass control (bought dlbc).

In Dirac live, I can change/ split both subs separately. When in Bass management, the fun is over. No way to split. When in Bass control, no fun also.

Not independent, I guess. I am searching for a contact at Onkyo to explain this. What is the advertising? But Onkyo is hiding online.At least in NL.

 

[l_lama]

But Onkyo is hiding online.At least in NL.

https://support.onkyousa.com/hc/en-us/requests/new you can submit request here and choose Netherlands, but there is a chance that question will be forwarded to the local distributor.

Onkyo went bankrupt in recent years and brand was sold, so their Facebook link now points to Klipsh page.

 

[dlaloum]

Just have a look few posts above:

Onkyo Icon P‑80 + M‑80 World First Unboxing and Preview

I was interested in the Icon A-50 due to the ART feature, it's advertised as 140w @ 8ohm & 180w @ 4ohm everywhere including on Onkyo's website, but I'm put off as in the PDF manual it says the following, North America and Japan models ■Amplifier Section Rated Output Power (North America models)...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Onkyo Icon P‑80 + M‑80 World First Unboxing and Preview

That’s a good question. I did notice that earlier as well. I haven’t connected the subs yet. In the controller, I can check one or two subwoofers. The volume indicator shows two volume levels for the subs. Does that mean anything? It will probably become clear after a Dirac measurement, I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is controversial. I wonder if Onkyo has single crossover and equalizer for both subwoofers, but independent attenuation for the sake of Dirac's DLBC ?

At launch they were talking of supporting both DLBC and ART... which requires independent channels for each sub.

They have since apparently walked back the commitment to ART.

Whether they enable the subs crossovers as seperate within the non Dirac bass management is a seperate firmware decision.

Typically Dirac Live (without DLBC or ART) in the Onkyo components includes the Bass Management component and therefore can level set and EQ the subs (like ever other speaker channel in the system) - but without DLBC it cannot tune them together in the same way.

 

[Toni71]

Independent or non independent. I have written Onkyo support:
'
Dear Onkyo Support,

I recently purchased the DLBC for my two subwoofer setup, with the expectation of having independent control over the sub channels, as initially mentioned in the product ads. However, I was surprised to find that there are no independent sub channels, and there’s no way to adjust the sub crossovers independently in the Bass Management/DLBC settings. The subs behave as a single channel when adjusting the crossover, which is not what I expected based on the initial advertising.

I specifically purchased this unit to have independent control over both subs, so I am disappointed by this limitation. The advertising seemed to suggest this functionality, which now appears to be absent. I wonder if this feature could be added in a future firmware update.

There’s also a discussion on the ASR forum about this issue:

[ASR Forum Link]

Please consider making the sub channels truly independent. As an older Onkyo customer returning to your brand, I feel let down by this issue.

Edit: the answer from Onkyo was to turn on both subs in the app. , I have forwarded it all to Flavio, Dirac. I hope he can clear things up.

 

[salamassi]

It is mostly streamer and DAC, and as such, it does not need all the hardware you've used to see in pricey AB-class amplifiers.
I wouldn't be surprised if measurements will be decent after all.

Sure, but as they say, both the eye and logic have a right to be satisfied. Having a 12 kg all-metal component just to make it look big isn't the right philosophy and only serves to double the price. The small streamer card would have found logical coherence and a real reduction in signal paths if incorporated, as in the same series but mod A-50, into a single integrated device, perhaps adding VU meters, sure, beautiful and therefore a selling price not exceeding 2000 euros. These two devices separated by the case but identical in every way, with components substituted according to need, have no logical profile. Same motherboard on 3 devices! A-50 M-80 P-80, disappointment. Built like a "Lego" I remove and add based on the circuit I need, no thanks (my point of view).

 

[salamassi]

yes! idem A-50 - M-80 - P-80

 

[AdrianusG]

This is their top of the line now,

This was 1986, see the differences?
what (the Hell) happened?

Specifications of ONKYO Integra P-308 Onkyo / Onkyo

 

[salamassi]

Certo, ma come si dice, sia l'occhio che la logica hanno diritto di essere soddisfatti. Avere un componente interamente in metallo da 12 kg solo per farlo sembrare grande non è la filosofia giusta e serve solo a raddoppiare il prezzo. La piccola scheda streamer avrebbe trovato coerenza logica e una reale riduzione dei percorsi del segnale se incorporata, come nella stessa serie ma mod A-50, in un unico dispositivo integrato, magari aggiungendo VU meter, certo, bella e quindi un prezzo di vendita non superiore ai 2000 euro. Questi due dispositivi separati dal case ma identici in tutto e per tutto, con componenti sostituiti a seconda delle necessità, non hanno alcun profilo logico. Stessa scheda madre su 3 dispositivi! A-50 M-80 P-80, delusione. Costruito come un "Lego" tolgo e aggiungo in base al circuito che mi serve, no grazie (il mio punto di vista).

Qualcuno può spiegare a cosa serve un trasformatore così grande, che alimenta un potenziometro motorizzato e un DAC/streamer... aggiunge sicuramente peso! Ma guarda, i fusibili sull'amplificatore sono alloggiati nella stessa posizione ma sono più grandi, mentre sul preamplificatore sono ancorati nello stesso punto ma più piccoli. Più guardo, più rimango deluso!

 

[Toni71]

There is no clear answer yet regarding the dual subs output. Dirac has been very responsive and helpful. In the Dirac Live filter, you can group the subs into one or two, and within this, you can adjust the curtains. In Bass Management or Bass Control, the subs are grouped together as one, with equal curtains. This is how it works.

I’ve asked Onkyo whether the outputs are mono split into two or independent, like those on Denon and Marantz receivers. For now, I am done with it. This weekend connecting my NOS Technics MK4 to the preamp.

 

[Toni71]

Just to inform people. There is a bug in the P-80. When using optical input with a WIIM or a PC to stream music, there are pops between every song. There is no way I can remove them. I’ve contacted Onkyo about this.

Edit: Nice. Onkyo is responding. I am giving information about my setup. Let's hope they can and will fix this.

 

[AdrianusG]

Qualcuno può spiegare a cosa serve un trasformatore così grande, che alimenta un potenziometro motorizzato e un DAC/streamer... aggiunge sicuramente peso! Ma guarda, i fusibili sull'amplificatore sono alloggiati nella stessa posizione ma sono più grandi, mentre sul preamplificatore sono ancorati nello stesso punto ma più piccoli. Più guardo, più rimango deluso!

translated,

"Can someone explain what such a large transformer is for, which powers a motorized potentiometer and a DAC/streamer... It definitely adds weight! But look, the fuses on the amplifier are housed in the same position but are larger, while on the preamplifier they are anchored in the same place but smaller. The more I look, the more disappointed I become!"

Well, look at built quality from mid- 80's from this brand, again what happened?

Specifications of ONKYO Integra P-308 Onkyo / Onkyo

 

[alindquistswe]

There is no clear answer yet regarding the dual subs output. Dirac has been very responsive and helpful. In the Dirac Live filter, you can group the subs into one or two, and within this, you can adjust the curtains. In Bass Management or Bass Control, the subs are grouped together as one, with equal curtains. This is how it works.

I’ve asked Onkyo whether the outputs are mono split into two or independent, like those on Denon and Marantz receivers. For now, I am done with it. This weekend connecting my NOS Technics MK4 to the preamp.

Got this reply from Onkyo

" I thought they should be independent as advertising? " The P-80 Preamplifier has two independent subwoofer outputs providing enough power to fully express the lowest tones in your music.".
Shared signal does not feel like independent outputs for me?

Is this a software limitation or is it actually by hardware?

Best regards"

" Onkyo - This is by hardware just how they made it i do apologies "

 

[salamassi]

Ho ricevuto questa risposta da Onkyo

"Pensavo che dovessero essere indipendenti come pubblicità?" Il preamplificatore P-80 ha due uscite subwoofer indipendenti che forniscono potenza sufficiente per esprimere appieno i toni più bassi della tua musica.
Per me il segnale condiviso non equivale a uscite indipendenti?

Si tratta di una limitazione software o è dovuta in realtà all'hardware?

Distinti saluti"

"Onkyo - Questo è l'hardware che hanno creato, mi scu

 

[salamassi]

Penso che questi dispositivi siano solo belli esteticamente, ma non valgono assolutamente il loro prezzo di vendita!

 

[Toni71]

Time to sell the preamp when Denon is coming with new receivers. Back to an av receiver it will be. Dirac is contacted for a refund of DLBC. Is there still a 30 day policy? A well, I will see.