Let me add that there are issues other than sound quality per se why I choose to use the Marantz.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Onkyo getting acquired
- Thread starter stunta
- Start date
LightninBoy
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I believe the HT audio world peaked with 5.1 and Dolby Digital. The advancements after that have been underwhelming, particularly if you consider the extra hassle/cost of 7.1 and up systems.
Never set up a 7.1 system, but yes, probably a very minor upgrade from 5.1.
But for movies, I found a true .4 speaker Atmos/DTS-X well worth the cost/hassle when used with the best engineered soundtracks. (that is when correctly done with 4 overheard speakers and not the bouncy house speaker modules aimed at the ceiling). Just like most everything else, it all depends on the quality of the source material
Most Netflix shows and films have 5.1 audio and even Atmos in the case of some of their bigger budget shows like Altered Carbon. They also have probably the largest library of HDR content available anywhere. So it is odd to not care about audio because you watch Netflix. Their audio support is excellent. They even care about bitrates, which is more than you can say for most streaming services.
From a sales/market penetration standpoint...this is verifiably true. I do not agree with comments here that say AVR surround receivers never had serious market penetration. From the mid 80s to about 2000 surround absolutely drove the audio business. Perhaps this is more true in the US than elsewhere. What changed from 2 channel is that with surround sound, component audio became an accessory to video...driven by big screen TV sales. Today something like 40% of U.S. homes say they have surround sound in at least 1 TV room.
As a video accessory, flat panel TV more than anything else started the decrease in demand. It is harder to justify all those big black boxes in traditional component surround systems, when your TV sits flat on a wall. As an AV sales trainer, I remember the difficulty I had convincing my sales teams to be more open minded to presenting Bose type sub-sat surround systems, in-wall speakers, and even premium sound bars. Sure the black boxes sound better, but by 2000 mainstream customer priorities had shifted, and most thought their 10 year old Dolby Digital setup sounded fine...if they were going to spend more money it would be to make the boxes disappear, rather than add more boxes to expand to 7.1. Of course with streaming audio/video replacing most other formats...the need for all of those AVR inputs/outputs lessens as well.
Traditional component AVRs will probably never disappear, any more than 2 channel component audio has. But like 2 channel it will become more and more a niche / hobbyist market. Sound United's purchase reflects the market change, it is not the cause of it.
Really? From a UK perspective that sounds unbelievable.
Self-reported, of course.
RE: 40%
I googled it. Of course, you have to pay them money to get specific sourcing. But regardless of the exact figure, my own experience with large mainstream U.S. AV retailers like BestBuy, Circuit City, Ultimate Electronics, GoodGuys, Sound Advice, Tweeter, backs up that component AV was a mainstream product for quite a while in the U.S.
Most of the above retailers are gone now, and that directly impacts the viability of component brands. Some brands, like Pioneer, were sold by many dealers in each market. Others, like Harman Kardon, Onkyo, and Denon had much more limited distribution. When AV gear was mostly sold through assisted selling dealers with commissioned sales teams, exclusive brands were seen by dealers as a way to increase profit & close rate, and by the smaller brands as a way to get their stories effectively told. (the Integra line created by Onkyo to be more exclusive). Now that nearly everything is available through Best Buy and/or Amazon, it is a lot harder to justify all of these brands from a marketing perspective.
I googled it. Of course, you have to pay them money to get specific sourcing. But regardless of the exact figure, my own experience with large mainstream U.S. AV retailers like BestBuy, Circuit City, Ultimate Electronics, GoodGuys, Sound Advice, Tweeter, backs up that component AV was a mainstream product for quite a while in the U.S.
Most of the above retailers are gone now, and that directly impacts the viability of component brands. Some brands, like Pioneer, were sold by many dealers in each market. Others, like Harman Kardon, Onkyo, and Denon had much more limited distribution. When AV gear was mostly sold through assisted selling dealers with commissioned sales teams, exclusive brands were seen by dealers as a way to increase profit & close rate, and by the smaller brands as a way to get their stories effectively told. (the Integra line created by Onkyo to be more exclusive). Now that nearly everything is available through Best Buy and/or Amazon, it is a lot harder to justify all of these brands from a marketing perspective.
jhwalker
Active Member
Doesn't sound unlikely to me - everyone I know (except my and my partner's 80+ year old fathers) has surround, and we're the only "enthusiasts" in the bunch.
It was just close to standard a few years back.
I would imagine that soundbar owners are including themselves in that ownership report..
That's so different to over here, I'm not sure I've ever been in a UK house with surround sound.
I'd imagine the installer models are a little more robust and use slightly better components to increase product life. I think I read that when I was shopping for avrs. God what a waste of time that was.
This is true: I offered my nephew a pair of decent active studio monitors for his home and he refused; he wanted a Sonos system.
I heard a Naim Muso on Highend 2019 and in this (rather small and reflective) room its sound was really good; loud, clear, room filling, good bass.
He he - lived together for 10 years until we decided to get married. She knew by then what she got - that is when moving into a new flat first the audio system was build up and then the rest of the furniture.
Last edited:
Never said a soundbar couldn't sound good. With quality drivers, amplification, and well designed digital manipulation some amazing wizardry is possible. But consider the big picture of multich playback, both music and movie based. The engineer at the board was placing objects in a soundfield not only L & R, but front to rear creating a 360 soundfield of a specific nature that was the engineers intend. Without speakers placed in the full 5.1 channel positions no amount of digital wizardry is going to reproduce the 360 image with a small spread of speakers front and center. I won't even bother to discuss the immersive effects possible with overhead speakers and Atmos or DTS-X coding.
Simulating the 360 imaging of a good 5.1 or better rig with a single small box up front can't be done. It's like trying to make a single mono speaker create a full stereo image just by adding some digital tricks.. Soundbars are a major compromise of the intended multich reproduction designed for the lifestyles, not a quality surround sound replacement.
Tell Dr Floyd Toole he can dump his system for a $299 soundbar. LOL
Now that's talking like a standup man.
Truly impressive! Sal, can you circle the Onkyo components in his setup...I'm somehow missing them........Tell Dr Floyd Toole he can dump his system for a $299 soundbar. LOL
Your point is a very good one. There is a huge difference in performance between components and sound bars.
But, I'm not just being snide. Sound United collects legacy brands that have lost most of there former bona fides. Sandy Gross is long gone from Deftech. Mathew Polk retired years ago, Boston seems like a shell today. Marantz's goldenear just left.
Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon have dramatically shifted their product lines to align with today's less knowledgeable, less critical mass market receiver consumers who research by comparing labels at Bestbuy instead of reading test reports in Stereo Review and Audio Magazine. This link on why 1980 receivers can sometimes outperform modern ones. Yes, they still sound better than most soundbars.
A recent PIoneer stereo receiver tear sheet proudly advertises 100 WPC at 10% distortion. That's 10%.
Compare that to this mid 1970s Kenwood stereo receiver ad.
The quality of many legacy brands has changed to match the demands of with their less discriminating customers. So I will shed fewer tears when they consolidate.
Last edited:
Truly impressive! Sal, can you circle the Onkyo components in his setup...I'm somehow missing them
Your point is a very good one. There is a huge difference in performance between components and sound bars.
But, I'm not just being snide. Sound United collects legacy brands that have lost most of there former bona fides. Sandy Gross is long gone from Deftech. Mathew Polk retired years ago, Boston seems like a shell today. Marantz's goldenear just left.
Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon have dramatically shifted their product lines to align with today's less knowledgeable, less critical mass market receiver consumers who research by comparing labels at Bestbuy instead of reading test reports in Stereo Review and Audio Magazine. This link on why 1980 receivers can sometimes outperform modern ones. Yes, they still sound better than most soundbars.
A recent PIoneer stereo receiver tear sheet proudly advertises 100 WPC at 10% distortion. That's 10%.
Compare that to this mid 1970s Kenwood stereo receiver ad.
View attachment 26480
The quality of many legacy brands has changed to match the demands of with their less discriminating customers. So I will shed fewer tears shed if they consolidate.
The only thing in this post I would take issue with is that I think that comparing labels at Best Buy is probably a more rational way to select a receiver than reading magazine reviews.
The Yarra is being shipped now.
Similar threads
