• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

One of the most interesting from a High End Audio Reviewer

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,160
Likes
12,421
Location
London
They were at Munich one year, I believe Magico were using a DEQX for crossover and room EQ duties, very clean, clear sound with bass too!
I remember walking to the Tune Anima room afterwards where bychance they were playing the same Mark Knopfer song, very different presentation there!
Keith
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,891
Likes
16,699
Location
Monument, CO
There have been several articles on price escalation including some lamenting the high-end companies who seem to have traded reasonable prices and volume for a few very expensive models. I can't find the article I had in mind, but one opined that, with the market so competitive, manufacturers were doing better selling a few ultra-expensive models to their luxury customers than attempting to compete at lower price levels. I suspect this is especially true for small shops comprised of just a few workers. I miss the old Audio equipment directory; wonder just how many speaker makers there are and at what price points these days?
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
634
There have been several articles on price escalation including some lamenting the high-end companies who seem to have traded reasonable prices and volume for a few very expensive models. I can't find the article I had in mind, but one opined that, with the market so competitive, manufacturers were doing better selling a few ultra-expensive models to their luxury customers than attempting to compete at lower price levels. I suspect this is especially true for small shops comprised of just a few workers. I miss the old Audio equipment directory; wonder just how many speaker makers there are and at what price points these days?
I too miss Audio Magazine - Dick Heyser, etc. - and especially their annual equipment directory, which was a terrific reference to virtually all that was available.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,891
Likes
16,699
Location
Monument, CO
I miss their technical articles, haven't really seen that today. I started to pick up The Audio Amateur again but looks like it is also gone... I have not really looked, but am guessing there may still be a similar magazine, but maybe it's all shifted to the WWW and individual books. There seems to be a huge number of audio-related books these days, hard to tell what are useful or not. I should probably just bite the bullet and join AES again. No spare time, alas, and I have years of IEEE journals piled up still in their wrappers...
 

Superdad

Active Member
Audio Company
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
149
Likes
91
The change I was refering to was Magico going from a flagship speaker that was a conventional 3 way loudspeaker to a horn loaded design. That was a huge change in design philosophy. The increased price of that loud speaker system since it's introduction to the market is not relevant to the actual change in design philosophy I was citing.

Just FYI, Magico has been producing a version of their large horn speaker almost since the inception of the company. The more conventional models followed.
 

Superdad

Active Member
Audio Company
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
149
Likes
91

You are right. They did have the original Mini and Reference before they did the first Ultimate.
I simply interpreted your comment as assuming that the newest horn was a new direction for them after all the other models they designed this past decade.

I must say that never, on the half dozen occasions I have heard them, was I particularly moved by the Magico sound. Admittedly those time were all at hifi shows.
 

Analog Scott

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
451
Likes
44
You are right. They did have the original Mini and Reference before they did the first Ultimate.
I simply interpreted your comment as assuming that the newest horn was a new direction for them after all the other models they designed this past decade.

I must say that never, on the half dozen occasions I have heard them, was I particularly moved by the Magico sound. Admittedly those time were all at hifi shows.
I have never had the chance to hear any of their products yet. Show conditions are dicey to be sure. Still, they can be a fun way to get some exposure to lots of gear.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,654
Likes
240,828
Location
Seattle Area
I must say that never, on the half dozen occasions I have heard them, was I particularly moved by the Magico sound. Admittedly those time were all at hifi shows.
Synergistic room of all places, usually has the best Magico sound at shows.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,414
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Well, that says a lot right there. I don't even feel like driving across town to check something out.

I literally LOLed and spewed my winebeer on the screen.

I'm so much the same.

I'll even buy stuff online I've never heard before based on reviews and specs before I'll drive an hour to listen in an unfamiliar room.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,414
Location
Seattle Area, USA
The larger and more science/performance oriented manufacturers know they have a much larger customer base. They also have the luxury of focusing on performance. These companies DO replace engineers/designers and move in different directions. I find this a refreshing and a healthy sign for a business.

Also, the more legit manufacturers know they will sell so many thousands of speaker pairs. They know they'll need to charge no more than necessary to hit that big number. They can also spend much greater effort doing truly unique engineering.

All speaker manufacturers come down to people. The question is: who has the best people to design and engineer each speaker component and the entire design? One place to look is the AES journal. You can get a feel for how talented some of these engineers are by reading about their designs and ideas in a non-marketing and very technical journal. Another place is to simply review measurements in the context of what we now know about the listener preferences we all share based on established science.

Weirdly, I love examples that fall in both camps, ATC (cottage, but pro), and Dynaudio, whose new research facility looks set to give Harman a run for its money:

IMG_20171018_090143.jpg.629f5eaa5508d58652848d4040eefb33.jpg


IMG_20171018_090312.jpg.223030f6cb1d5da5f590960d163834cb.jpg


PANO_20171018_090233.jpg.a6913488a220cf45780324d3717cf8d6.jpg'


 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,414
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Some might argue, given the nature of Contemporary music making it sound worse by using a TT is some how poetically pertinent.

Not me though I love them block rocking beats and grimy licks..

Clearly you haven't hard Justin Bieber on vinyl.

It'll make you a Belieber.
 

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,939
Location
Oslo, Norway
Weirdly, I love examples that fall in both camps, ATC (cottage, but pro), and Dynaudio, whose new research facility looks set to give Harman a run for its money:

I agree in principle that larger sciency manufacturers should give the best bang for the buck, and that they have the most resources for developing good speakers. Still, I have found myself drawn to smaller manufacturers lately. It is as if the big guys stick with the conventional, and don't really break new ground.

Some examples: Harman owns the patent to CBT speakers. But they never commercialized them for the home market, in spite of their obvious theoretical advantages (there's a reason why they're common in PA). No large companies make line sources at all. No large companies do omnis or dipoles, in spite of the theoretical advantages both omnis and dipoles can have (read Linkwitz). Out of the large companies, only Klipsch makes large horns, even though horns can have theoretical advantages as well (and the best horn speaker Klipsch ever made, The Jubilee, was quickly withdrawn from the home market). Two of the most innovative current DSP speakers - Kii Three and Dutch&Dutch 8C - have sprung out of independent manufacturers. And how about electrostats? Not really produced by the biggest players either. (as for me, my current AVI monitors sound subjectively better to me than most of the active monitors I've heard from bigger companies)

There are some exceptions, of course. B&O have made real innovations with the Beolab 90 and 50. The active Dynaudio XD series is good. Etc. But it doesn't seem to me that the larger companies, on the whole, have been pushing the envelope very much. My take-away is that the large companies is the place to go if one wants good quality within in the conventional speaker paradigm - forward firing box speakers, that is. But if one prefers non-conventional speakers - as I often find myself doing - one needs to look in other directions.
 

tomelex

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
990
Likes
572
Location
So called Midwest, USA
I miss their technical articles, haven't really seen that today. I started to pick up The Audio Amateur again but looks like it is also gone... I have not really looked, but am guessing there may still be a similar magazine, but maybe it's all shifted to the WWW and individual books. There seems to be a huge number of audio-related books these days, hard to tell what are useful or not. I should probably just bite the bullet and join AES again. No spare time, alas, and I have years of IEEE journals piled up still in their wrappers...


I think our British friends can recommend a magazine from over there that does a pretty good job at technical information, atleast there was one 15 years ago, what hi fi or something like that...
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,772
Likes
3,213
Location
a fortified compound
There have been several articles on price escalation including some lamenting the high-end companies who seem to have traded reasonable prices and volume for a few very expensive models. I can't find the article I had in mind, but one opined that, with the market so competitive, manufacturers were doing better selling a few ultra-expensive models to their luxury customers than attempting to compete at lower price levels. I suspect this is especially true for small shops comprised of just a few workers. I miss the old Audio equipment directory; wonder just how many speaker makers there are and at what price points these days?

I suspect that the recent price escalation has taken place principally because of the expansion of the East Asian market for high-end goods. The number of people with nine-figure or larger net worth in the PRC and nearby countries is now enormous by historical standards. There's a strong tendency among wealthy people in East Asia to prefer astronomically expensive products. This tendency is evident not only in high-end audio but also in every other luxury goods market in East Asia.

I highly recommend going to the Adelphi Mall in Singapore. The salespeople there--with some laudable exceptions--are not accustomed to dealing with knowledgeable customers. They tend to assume that the most important product performance criterion is price: the higher, the better.

I don't buy Vacheron Constantin watches, Louis Vuitton luggage, FM Acoustics amplifiers, Vertu phones, or shiny wooden boxes of dirt. I am not losing sleep about it.
 

clarence

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
17
Likes
16
I reckon the "new" hifi system will eclipse the $100k mark , which is still an obscene amount of money in most audiophiles books...

  • Speakers: Vimberg Tondas ($38,000/pair)
  • Amplifier: Boulder Amplifiers 2060 ($44,000; bought used for $14,000)
  • Digital-to-analog converter: MSB Discrete DAC (base price, $9950; Premier Powerbase, $7500; Pro USB module, $1980; Network Renderer V2 module, $1995; total price, $21,425)
  • Power conditioner: Shunyata Research Hydra Alpha A12 power conditioner ($4498)
  • Interconnects, speaker cables, power cords: Shunyata Research: Delta IC balanced interconnects ($3000/6m pair); Alpha USB link ($1100/1.5m); Alpha SP speaker cables ($4300/2.5m pair); Venom NR-V10 power cord ($498/1.75m) (2)
  • Rack: SGR Audio Model III Symphony ($3900)
  • Music server: Apple MacBook Air laptop ($1200)
  • System total cost: $122,419
https://www.soundstageultra.com/ind...4-system-finished-msb-technology-discrete-dac

LOL
 
Top Bottom