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One of the most interesting from a High End Audio Reviewer

Wes

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An older relative retired in the early 1990s. He started doing home windows to stay occupied and make a little spare cash. Retrofits mostly to put insulated windows in older homes or sometimes just a new modern set of windows. Such business is mostly in wealthier parts of town. Something of a luxury item to some extent. He got some jobs, but kept losing out to people charging more. So he did a follow up after such an episode. Went by and asked this couple why did he not get awarded the job, said they'll get fine work from who they picked as he knew the guy, but was trying to find out what he needed to do to get the work. The wife spoke up and said of the 4 estimates they took his was too low. He knew he was supplying the same brand windows as the other guys. She finally told him three of the estimates were pretty close and his was significantly lower. "You have to be cutting corners to do it that cheap. Maybe you can make it look right on the outside, but you have to be short-cutting it somewhere."

After pondering that he decided on the next few estimates to do his normal thing and then double it. He didn't get them all, but he started getting more work. In time it was more than he wanted. I told him it was simple, he needed to raise his prices more to slow it down some. Having been a hard working frugal man his whole life he actually felt guilty as it was. He more or less said he felt bad with his current pricing and wasn't going to 'cheat' people more just to make it easy on himself. He could just turn down jobs when needed. So there you have it, one luxury items, non-essentials, people are spending spare cash and the market moves people where it has to go. Some of course jump right in with glee to see how far it can go.

There is a name for this in economics. Reverse something or other... I wish I could recall the name, but the std. example of it is the price increases vs. volume sold over the years of new BMWs. it was a cult car in the 1970s-70s, bought by people who wanted a fun high performance sedan. Then in the 1980s the yuppies discovered the brand - never been the same since.
 

anmpr1

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... it was a cult car in the 1970s-70s, bought by people who wanted a fun high performance sedan. Then in the 1980s the yuppies discovered the brand - never been the same since.
When the 2002 arrived (BMW didn't even have a factory presence--the car was handled by an independent importer) it was expensive, but so different than the usual American thing. I remember David E Davis' Car and Driver review. People thought Dave was putting them on. But it was the real deal for a 'new' America. A small driver oriented sedan. Imagine that. Over the years the 'magic' was slowly massaged out of the car. For a lot of reasons. Certainly not the car Davis knew, and understood.

It would be the same if Frank and Gordon could somehow go to Binghamton, today. How would they react to the green LEDs on the tubes? Not the McIntosh they knew and understood.
 

Wes

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Yes, Hoffman Motors imported the 1600 and 2002. They were on 5th Ave. in NYC.

The 2002 was spendy but not absurdly so - my '71 was about the same $$ as a low-end Caddy.

Over the years the 'magic' was slowly massaged out of all cars. A modern Porsche is far too competent to be fun as a street driver. It's why I have a hot-rodded '73 911...
 

anmpr1

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Yes, Hoffman Motors imported the 1600 and 2002. They were on 5th Ave. in NYC. Over the years the 'magic' was slowly massaged out of all cars. A modern Porsche is far too competent to be fun as a street driver. It's why I have a hot-rodded '73 911...
It's true. I always gravitated to the Germans. I had an Audi 4000, which was similar to the VW Quantum, I think. Drove like a tamed MG. I recall taking my Audi 90 in for service and contemplating the then new (1989) Audi V8 (what is now the luxo A8). It had a five speed manual. Imagine a luxury sedan with a manual transmission in the US! I remember the 200 Quattro station wagon with a manual. I thought, "Who the hell is going to buy these?" But I would have bought both in a heartbeat if I had had the money! LOL
 

watchnerd

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It's true. I always gravitated to the Germans. I had an Audi 4000, which was similar to the VW Quantum, I think. Drove like a tamed MG. I recall taking my Audi 90 in for service and contemplating the then new (1989) Audi V8 (what is now the luxo A8). It had a five speed manual. Imagine a luxury sedan with a manual transmission in the US! I remember the 200 Quattro station wagon with a manual. I thought, "Who the hell is going to buy these?" But I would have bought both in a heartbeat if I had had the money! LOL

After 10 years of ownership of various German (BMW, Audi) cars, I've scratched that itch and no longer am interested in the PITA maintenance they need to keep performing right.

Yeah, they're great to drive.

But I'm no longer willing to deal with their diva needs.
 

anmpr1

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After 10 years of ownership of various German (BMW, Audi) cars, I've scratched that itch and no longer am interested in the PITA maintenance they need to keep performing right.
I get that completely. I guess it's like dating the dancer from the club (not that I've done that). High on performance and fun. Outrageously high day to day maintenance cost. Actually the dancer might be cheaper in the long run, if you can keep her medicated. On the other hand, your Porsche or BMW M probably won't run off with your best friend.
 

Wes

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After 10 years of ownership of various German (BMW, Audi) cars, I've scratched that itch and no longer am interested in the PITA maintenance they need to keep performing right.

Yeah, they're great to drive.

But I'm no longer willing to deal with their diva needs.

That problem is only with the newer ones. The Germans have never achieved an understanding of reliable electronics, something every child in Japan seems to know.

Get a German car with no electronics; do the maintenance and drive it forever. Some Porsche motors have 400,000 miles on them.

Or buy a wonderful, sonorous and exciting Italian sports car. They are beautiful - even while sitting on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck...
 

pozz

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I read his follow-up articles. His heart was in the right place, but he didn't have the right tools to stay close to his intent. Still bought a power conditioner and cables and the most expensive MSB DAC. Last article I read his system was $120k.
 

watchnerd

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That problem is only with the newer ones. The Germans have never achieved an understanding of reliable electronics, something every child in Japan seems to know.

Get a German car with no electronics; do the maintenance and drive it forever. Some Porsche motors have 400,000 miles on them.

Or buy a wonderful, sonorous and exciting Italian sports car. They are beautiful - even while sitting on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck...

Well, the issues I had were never with the electronics.

It was with the mechanical wear and tear elements -- suspension bushings, timing chains, etc.

And all of them were expected to wear out as they did. They were not deemed defective.
 

anmpr1

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I think it's just cars in general. Fun factor is inverse to reliability. I had two Jeeps (Wrangler) which were very fun off road, but garbage reliability. If you are looking for one to actually use off road, get an old one and build it up. Much cheaper than new. But most people probably use Jeeps to navigate the parking lot at Whole Foods. LOL
 
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FrantzM

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After 10 years of ownership of various German (BMW, Audi) cars, I've scratched that itch and no longer am interested in the PITA maintenance they need to keep performing right.

Yeah, they're great to drive.

But I'm no longer willing to deal with their diva needs.

Never had an Audi or BMW but had Mercedes... I 've written about it somewhere else... as a whole they suck. It will eventually catch with them... The MG G-Wagon is a piece of GSFFRT$$#%^ ... A bad car.. The AC may cease to function at any given time and in my G-Wagon, if a rear brake light burned, then you were without ABS .. simple ... the bulb was part of the ABS circuit .. it goes.. so does your ABS... Anyone with a MB G-Wagon can tell you that the seats don't always move back.. unless you have memorized 3 positions.. You move the seat forward .. then you find yourself almost crushed by the wheel ... and in a position only a gymnast may come out from ... They all do that and it is known by any owner to just use the memory positions ...:rolleyes:... There are similar horror tales, from their lineup ...S. E or C ... Same.
 
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FrantzM

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  • Speakers: Vimberg Tondas ($38,000/pair)
  • Amplifier: Boulder Amplifiers 2060 ($44,000; bought used for $14,000)
  • Digital-to-analog converter: MSB Discrete DAC (base price, $9950; Premier Powerbase, $7500; Pro USB module, $1980; Network Renderer V2 module, $1995; total price, $21,425)
  • Power conditioner: Shunyata Research Hydra Alpha A12 power conditioner ($4498)
  • Interconnects, speaker cables, power cords: Shunyata Research: Delta IC balanced interconnects ($3000/6m pair); Alpha USB link ($1100/1.5m); Alpha SP speaker cables ($4300/2.5m pair); Venom NR-V10 power cord ($498/1.75m) (2)
  • Rack: SGR Audio Model III Symphony ($3900)
  • Music server: Apple MacBook Air laptop ($1200)
  • System total cost: $122,419
https://www.soundstageultra.com/ind...4-system-finished-msb-technology-discrete-dac

LOL
Well ... He tried, (re) saw the light and went back to his roots ...
I like the mentions of the Alpha USB Link at $1100 ... and of the rack at $3900 .

:mad:
 

watchnerd

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I think it's just cars in general. Fun factor is inverse to reliability. I had two Jeeps (Wrangler) which were very fun off road, but garbage reliability. If you are looking for one to actually use off road, get an old one and build it up. Much cheaper than new. But most people probably use Jeeps to navigate the parking lot at Whole Foods. LOL

I would say fun factor scales worse when reliability is bad.

My wife's 'fun' Fiat 500 became un-fun when it became unreliable.
 

Old Listener

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After 10 years of ownership of various German (BMW, Audi) cars, I've scratched that itch and no longer am interested in the PITA maintenance they need to keep performing right.

Yeah, they're great to drive.

But I'm no longer willing to deal with their diva needs.

My wife and I owned a 1969 BMW 2002 for ~12 years. Not entirely trouble free but OK and lots of fun.

We've owned a 2001 BMW M Roadster for ~18 years. Also lots of fun, quite reliable and not too expensive to own. Of course, we keep the mileage down.

We have a 2011 VW GTi hatchback with about 111,000 miles now. All around great car. Good power, fine handling and carries a surprising amount of cargo. A great bargain to buy and not expensive to operate. Few problems. A thinking man's German car.

So, our luck with German cars has been quite good.
 

Cbdb2

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The guy believes in snake oil cables. Looks like a scam to push lower priced snake oil. Next.
 

egellings

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Good article, but I just can't identify with the princely sums required to make that happen. (Us chickens--Bedawk!)
 

escksu

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Regarding price, I do agree those ultra high end gears are ridiculously expensive. Good thing is we can still get very good performance for a fraction of the price today, and its getting cheaper. Look at how incredible budget speakers sound today compared to 30yrs ago, even the gears.... Its amazing.
 

Sal1950

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Its amazing.
Very true.
That's what empowered the snake-oil charmers to create all the audio myths and BS like cables, usb widgets, grounding boxes, on and on and on. All imaginary improvements that cost huge money and do nothing but lighten a wallet.
 
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