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One crook helping the other (Fremer helping Paul sell his snake oil power regenerators)

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Thomas savage

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#2
I wouldn't mind the circle jerk of the audio deluded if those participanting weren't so clearly financially motivated .

That takes it up a notch in terms of cynicism and makes it distasteful to me.

Being a over grown child is fine , just don't exploit people lol
 

diddley

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#4
the stupid thing with those video's are, now that every time i go to youtube it recommends me video's from Paul snakeoil factory.
Can't believe somebody is willing to do such a clear salespitch.
Paul must be desperate,and in the end he's not gonna make it,people will see through the b.s. and save for better speakers and such.
b.s.audio will not gonna make it.
 

FrantzM

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#6
the stupid thing with those video's are, now that every time i go to youtube it recommends me video's from Paul snakeoil factory.
Can't believe somebody is willing to do such a clear salespitch.
Paul must be desperate,and in the end he's not gonna make it,people will see through the b.s. and save for better speakers and such.
b.s.audio will not gonna make it.
HI

I make sure of never watching these video. Clicking to watch does increase their score on YouTube.

Paul has been around for along time and he continues to sell and make money. As for people like Fremer I used to think of them as innocent but have come to see them as active participants with agendas. People do not see so easily as you would think through the B.S., quite the contrary: Subjective audiophiles are an irreducible bunch that spend serious money on their hobby. Enough to enrich several of those B.S. peddlers. What you see is adaptive marketing , my term. There is a rise in objective reviewing, ASR is proof. They must counter with something. On the ASR-side there are people with serious credentials, with credibility and inone particular case an Emmy or was it a Grammy ;) .. on their side they had to come up with some creds .. Fremer to the rescue; he was featured on "Good Morning America" IIRC and has those incredibly cool-looking turntable , that cost a lot of money and has hearing that is better than most people ....:rolleyes:... So what you see is a thinly veiled publicity stunt. Don't be surprised if Fremer "loves the product so much, he had to keep it" ...:rolleyes:
 

Frank Dernie

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#8
the stupid thing with those video's are, now that every time i go to youtube it recommends me video's from Paul snakeoil factory.
Can't believe somebody is willing to do such a clear salespitch.
Paul must be desperate,and in the end he's not gonna make it,people will see through the b.s. and save for better speakers and such.
b.s.audio will not gonna make it.
One would like to think so but it has been going strong, and gathering more disciples from the easily fooled non-scientificaly minded enthusiasts, for over 30 years.
I think, given the "death of expertise" and the "my opinion is as valid as yours" attitude of people who have spent 15 minutes researching youtube I think, if anything, it is getting worse.
 

Jimbob54

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#9
Always bloody transients and/or veils.

Also, I am guessing most people living in apartments know exactly where their power comes from. The walls, same as in houses.
 

MrPeabody

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#10
Good grief. I watched a little of this from the 15:40 mark, until my stomach turned, then watched some more from near the start, until my stomach turned again. It is all so blatantly dishonest. Fremer dreamed up the idea that the auxiliary power generator outside his house messed up the sound of his audio system. He came up with this just so that he would have a quasi-plausible reason to heap praise on Paul's power regenerating gizmo. These people have no sense of shame. At 17:00 I couldn't keep from laughing. Fremer telling paranoid schizoid people who live in apartment buildings that they need Paul's power regenerator because the electricity is made dirty by all the other dirty people who live in the same dirty apartment complex. It's freaking hilarious. I don't know whether Fremer is nuts himself or wether he is consciously aware that he's just making up a bunch of lies. It's hard to tell. If I were a vinyl guy, I'd be embarrassed by Fremer. He's the de facto spokesmodel for vinyl, yet he's either completely nuts or a compulsive liar, likely both.
 

direstraitsfan98

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#12
My favourite Fremer moment(s) was his stereophile video where they went around his system and the camera guy pointed it at every single object in his room and Michael made sure to point out each and every item and say “I own this” or “this is mine” like he was proud he was able to purchase them at 20% msrp!!!

Id be lying if I didn’t admit I am envious of his Dartzeel monos and Wilson Alexx speakers, but getting them at “reviewer discount” must be nice, eh? Rumour has it he acquired his $100k Continuum turntable he’s so proud of at raw materials cost, like 8 grand.
 

rdenney

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#16
I would simply like to see a waveform analysis of the power, going in and coming out. Forget FFT and so on--just show me the waveform on a scope for starters. If that looks bad, then okay. If not, then let's do a spectrogram and see where the noise is. Then, let's see if any of that noise is coming out of any of our audio equipment. My bet is 1.) power line noise is negligible most of the time, and 2.) the filter caps on the power supplies of my equipment clean it off if it isn't.

The only power regenerator I know of that will remove noise better than the noise remover of a good power supply (which most good audio equipment already has) uses inertial mass--incoming power spins a flywheel, which drives a generator for outgoing power. That's "regeneration". And if the flywheels is heavy enough, it will cover over dropouts very nicely. And it's a great surge protector, too. Granted, it's acoustically noisy and the size of a lawnmower.

I use a more sophisticated power supply for my Thorens turntable than the 16VAC wall-wart that came with it. The one I use was made by Music Hall, and on ebay I paid a little over a hundred for it. I haven't hooked up a scope, but I really should. The main advantage, though, is that it will drive the synchronous motor in the Thorens at any speed, so I leave the belt on the 45RPM part of the pulley (which is larger, so less slippage and belt hysteresis, and less dependence on the kludgy belt derailleur for changing speeds), and can also make fine adjustments to speed to match pitch. Sometimes, I play along to recorded music, and LP's are often cut fast to get a bit more music on a side. Those are features worth a C-note or two to me. But I'll bet the AC waveform coming out of the Music Hall isn't any cleaner than the one coming out of the wall. In fact, I would not be surprised if the AC oscillator is digitally contrived and rather steppy.

If someone wants to put ferrite beads on their AC cable to choke common-mode RF, fine. Those are not expensive. It's not impossible for power lines to pick up RF in an RF-rich environment. I think I induce a little RF in my power lines when I press the talk button on my kilowatt ham radio transmitter, because I'm using a tuning network inside the house to match the antenna for some bands. (Not that I use the power most of the time--usually the 100 watts out of the bare radio is more than enough for my purposes.) Does that happen in New York apartment buildings? Maybe--people use their AC lines to carry "smart home" stuff and even Ethernet signals, but I'll bet not a bit of that makes it through even cheap power supplies on our systems.

How hard would it be to show O-scope traces or FFT spectrograms of the power going in and out of these devices? I'll bet that Mr. Fremer has the equipment to do that in his apartment already. Maybe not. If they are the same, then perhaps he would be willing to test his perceptions by a simple blind test. Blind testing of some things requires a lot of apparatus and time, but not this, it seems to me.

I do note that in one of his videos, he claimed off-handedly to hear the effects of crystals placed here and there (I suppose according to a plan). If he hears it, well, fine. I'm glad my hearing is unsophisticated enough not to need such self-delusions enhancements.

Rick "where is that oscilloscope? Oh, there it is..." Denney
 

egellings

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#17
I built an oscillator-amplifier (all analog circuity-Wien bridge, etc.) for 60Hz power regeneration and made the frequency adjustable over a +/- 25Hz range. I tried it on my turntable motor, and and I was unable to get the motor to run at 45 rpm for the TT by having the TT pulley set for 333rpm and going to, I think it was 81Hz to get 45rpm. Motor was "coggy" and often just lost it. Apparently, the motor needs to be designed to operate over a range of frequencies. When I ran the experiment, I did raise the 81Hz voltage to keep the motor current same as the 60Hz, value, but no cigar.
 
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#18
Looks like Paul asked Fremer to do a sell pitch for him, in a form of an informative video about vinyl:



I can't wait for Amir's debunk video about power regenerators...

How sad I feel for you.
I would simply like to see a waveform analysis of the power, going in and coming out. Forget FFT and so on--just show me the waveform on a scope for starters. If that looks bad, then okay. If not, then let's do a spectrogram and see where the noise is. Then, let's see if any of that noise is coming out of any of our audio equipment. My bet is 1.) power line noise is negligible most of the time, and 2.) the filter caps on the power supplies of my equipment clean it off if it isn't.

The only power regenerator I know of that will remove noise better than the noise remover of a good power supply (which most good audio equipment already has) uses inertial mass--incoming power spins a flywheel, which drives a generator for outgoing power. That's "regeneration". And if the flywheels is heavy enough, it will cover over dropouts very nicely. And it's a great surge protector, too. Granted, it's acoustically noisy and the size of a lawnmower.

I use a more sophisticated power supply for my Thorens turntable than the 16VAC wall-wart that came with it. The one I use was made by Music Hall, and on ebay I paid a little over a hundred for it. I haven't hooked up a scope, but I really should. The main advantage, though, is that it will drive the synchronous motor in the Thorens at any speed, so I leave the belt on the 45RPM part of the pulley (which is larger, so less slippage and belt hysteresis, and less dependence on the kludgy belt derailleur for changing speeds), and can also make fine adjustments to speed to match pitch. Sometimes, I play along to recorded music, and LP's are often cut fast to get a bit more music on a side. Those are features worth a C-note or two to me. But I'll bet the AC waveform coming out of the Music Hall isn't any cleaner than the one coming out of the wall. In fact, I would not be surprised if the AC oscillator is digitally contrived and rather steppy.

If someone wants to put ferrite beads on their AC cable to choke common-mode RF, fine. Those are not expensive. It's not impossible for power lines to pick up RF in an RF-rich environment. I think I induce a little RF in my power lines when I press the talk button on my kilowatt ham radio transmitter, because I'm using a tuning network inside the house to match the antenna for some bands. (Not that I use the power most of the time--usually the 100 watts out of the bare radio is more than enough for my purposes.) Does that happen in New York apartment buildings? Maybe--people use their AC lines to carry "smart home" stuff and even Ethernet signals, but I'll bet not a bit of that makes it through even cheap power supplies on our systems.

How hard would it be to show O-scope traces or FFT spectrograms of the power going in and out of these devices? I'll bet that Mr. Fremer has the equipment to do that in his apartment already. Maybe not. If they are the same, then perhaps he would be willing to test his perceptions by a simple blind test. Blind testing of some things requires a lot of apparatus and time, but not this, it seems to me.

I do note that in one of his videos, he claimed off-handedly to hear the effects of crystals placed here and there (I suppose according to a plan). If he hears it, well, fine. I'm glad my hearing is unsophisticated enough not to need such self-delusions enhancements.

Rick "where is that oscilloscope? Oh, there it is..." Denney
PLEASE SHOW ME THE VIDEO WHERE I TALK ABOUT CRYSTALS? I DARE YOU. BECAUSE I NEVER SAID SUCH A THING.
 
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#19
My favourite Fremer moment(s) was his stereophile video where they went around his system and the camera guy pointed it at every single object in his room and Michael made sure to point out each and every item and say “I own this” or “this is mine” like he was proud he was able to purchase them at 20% msrp!!!

Id be lying if I didn’t admit I am envious of his Dartzeel monos and Wilson Alexx speakers, but getting them at “reviewer discount” must be nice, eh? Rumour has it he acquired his $100k Continuum turntable he’s so proud of at raw materials cost, like 8 grand.
I HAVE TO SAY I OWN WHAT I OWN BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE THE RATS HERE WHO CLAIM I MADE SOME KIND OF "DEAL" WITH PAUL McGOWAN, WHICH I DID NOT, WILL SAY I STOLE THE GEAR I HAVE, OR I WAS GIVEN IT OR WHATEVER KIND OF LOW LIFE LIES THE SO-CALLED "SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY" OF SNAKES, VIPERS AND SCUMBAGS WILL WRITE ABOUT ME.
 
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#20
I HAVE TO SAY I OWN WHAT I OWN BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE THE RATS HERE WHO CLAIM I MADE SOME KIND OF "DEAL" WITH PAUL McGOWAN, WHICH I DID NOT, WILL SAY I STOLE THE GEAR I HAVE, OR I WAS GIVEN IT OR WHATEVER KIND OF LOW LIFE LIES THE SO-CALLED "SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY" OF SNAKES, VIPERS AND SCUMBAGS WILL WRITE ABOUT ME.
NOR DID I GET THE STUFF AT 20% YOU ARE A MEASURABLE LIAR.
 
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