On the Distortion of Cirrus Logic CS431xx-Based Devices: A Comparative Review

[SoySalsaPicante]

Yep, it's there (iD24):

View attachment 471344

 

[CuriousAli]

With my dongles I just played the track in loop at original sample rate, then started listening at low volume gradually rising it, at one point where volume was still not harming (the track content is safe on its own) i started hearing the "clicks" and then i knew the dongle is affected.

I think I need to blind test because I make myself hear things I guess, but at some point with the MacBook Pro headphone out I felt there was a noise added. With Audient I couldn't as easily feel it but maybe it was there too? And with KA17 the volume change itself causes pops so it is hard to be sure, but it sounded different to them I think?

Yep, it's there (iD24):

Thank you, you saved me from killing my ears while trying to find it!

 

[mc.god]

Yep, it's there (iD24):

View attachment 471344

Well, I wonder how it would have been if they didn't "work with Cirrus to ensure that the DRE noise is not audible"

 

[jkim]

This is Audient's response for iD24:

We are aware of the noise caused by the DRE switching on the Cirrus chips. This was something we were aware of when designing iD24, and we have worked with Cirrus to ensure that the DRE noise is not audible in our output channels on iD24.

Yep, it's there (iD24):

Well, I wonder how it would have been if they didn't "work with Cirrus to ensure that the DRE noise is not audible"

The distortion shown in @Rantapossu's measurements is exactly a typical "Cirrus hump." I am pretty sure the Audient representative was talking about a different thing. Audient is not even a small brand. Customers must contact and ask them to provide a firmware update to remedy the issue. If they do not take this issue seriously, I would never consider buying their products again.

 

[Rantapossu]

The headphone output of the iD24 (The previous graph was from the line out):

 

[Rantapossu]

I don't have the measurement equipments to test for this.

Actually you do. Just install REW or Multitone, both are freeware. All you need is one TRS-TRS -cable between the Line out and Line in.

 

[SlowLife]

The new firmware V1.70 for KA5 is now available!
• Optimized DAC DRE parameters.
KA5 firmware download link and update instruction:
https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202304141747228623151

 

[tccalvin]

This is Audient's response for iD24:

I mean... I can agree it's broadly "not audible". On something like an Apple dongle, it's whatever. On a professional audio interface it's a problem imho. It means if you take the output of the interface to feed it into hardware like compressors, effects etc. you're going to record all the added distortion and that's just not good. Audient interfaces are not cheap either.

 

[RedLine]

I found this thread and this issue for the first time early this week. At the time, I owned the Shanling H0, Fiio BTR13, Quloos MUB1. All Cirrus CS431 devices

I started my testing with the BTR13 and the RMAA audio sample. Wow, the distortion is completely insane, it's more than just audible, it's distracting. The C Major test was just as bad.

The Shanling H0 in the RMAA test had clicks just at the beginning, but still very audible. The C Major test was a little odd, there was distortion between the notes, but I had already given up on it, so didn't spend too much time.

The Quloos MUB1 was interesting. At Super High gain, there were no clicks or distortion, clearly the configuration is different and DRE is probably off. As gain falls, from high to low, the clicks and distortion comes in strong. At low it's worse than the Shanling and on par with the BTR13. Just crazy.

I sold them all this week. Yes, it's a bit of an overreaction, but I'm not going to wait for firmware updates. I don't think Shanling or Quloos are going to do anything, although Fiio probably will fix BTR13 soon.

The point isn't whether it's audible all of the time, or some of the time, or none of the time. It's that there are plenty of alternatives that simply don't have this problem. I've had the BTR15 for a day, works great, similar weight and size to the BTR13, the clip case is just as handy.

What a shambles from Cirrus.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

I found this thread and this issue for the first time early this week. At the time, I owned the Shanling H0, Fiio BTR13, Quloos MUB1. All Cirrus CS431 devices

I started my testing with the BTR13 and the RMAA audio sample. Wow, the distortion is completely insane, it's more than just audible, it's distracting. The C Major test was just as bad.

The Shanling H0 in the RMAA test had clicks just at the beginning, but still very audible. The C Major test was a little odd, there was distortion between the notes, but I had already given up on it, so didn't spend too much time.

The Quloos MUB1 was interesting. At Super High gain, there were no clicks or distortion, clearly the configuration is different and DRE is probably off. As gain falls, from high to low, the clicks and distortion comes in strong. At low it's worse than the Shanling and on par with the BTR13. Just crazy.

I sold them all this week. Yes, it's a bit of an overreaction, but I'm not going to wait for firmware updates. I don't think Shanling or Quloos are going to do anything, although Fiio probably will fix BTR13 soon.

The point isn't whether it's audible all of the time, or some of the time, or none of the time. It's that there are plenty of alternatives that simply don't have this problem. I've had the BTR15 for a day, works great, similar weight and size to the BTR13, the clip case is just as handy.

What a shambles from Cirrus.

The combined proceeds from selling all of those should more than cover the cost of a FiiO Q15 which, being based on AK4499EX/4191EQ, doesn't play these kinds of silly games.

 

[jkim]

The new firmware V1.70 for KA5 is now available!
• Optimized DAC DRE parameters.

It's good to see FiiO do this even for an old device they see no longer sell much.

 

[Rotiv]

Tanchjim app has been updated, Dac DRE Optimization, on or off... however I can't turn it on, it's always off???

 

[KDRN]

Tanchjim app has been updated, Dac DRE Optimization, on or off... however I can't turn it on, it's always off???View attachment 471600

looks like they implemented the option in the app. but havnt implemented in the firmware yet

 

[Powell2199]

Topping listened! A new firmware for D70 PRO OCTO was released.

6. What's updated​

• Add DRE mode

• Add volume memory that follows the output

 

[Ahmonge]

Topping listened! A new firmware for D70 PRO OCTO was released.

Good news for D70 Pro Octo owners. Hopefully we, the D30 Pro owners, will get good news too.

 

[Kaisertastiera]

Good news for D70 Pro Octo owners. Hopefully we, the D30 Pro owners, will get good news too.

It seems that Topping is not interested in paying much attention to the old models. I have already sent them an email to urge them.

 

[MBO]

It seems that Topping is not interested in paying much attention to the old models. I have already sent them an email to urge them.
View attachment 472319

I also sent them a letter about the D30PRO, because the device still deserves serious attention and has very good sound quality.

 

[MBO]

Yesterday after the update I tested the D70PRO for a long time. It sounds very good, now you can more or less hear the magnificent sound potential of the CS43198, if it were not for this absolutely unnecessary DRE, this DAC would have reference potential, since it sounds more balanced and harmonious than the Sabre DAC.

 

[MBO]

I can even imagine that if the manufacturers made a parallel design from C43198 in NOS mode, with DRE off, and external high-quality Oversampling/digital Filter as Gustard does, it could have turned out to be a very great DAC....

 

[zany.ninja]

The Moondrop Dawn Pro 2 has just been launched/announced, with dual CS43198 instead of the dual CS43131 of the Dawn Pro 1. No mention of which op-amps it's using. Other than slightly higher output power, the listed measurements are the same.

Would be interesting to see if they fixed the DRE distortion issue in the DP2, and if they'll ever do so for the DP1.

Btw @jkim the Google Doc list of Cirrus hump devices needs to be updated, what with the recent firmware fixes to some of the dongles.