old, crappy tape deck advice...

[drjim]

Update: Yup, Teac 4300 on the way. Same range as the 4010, but a decade newer. No oil caps, and no early germanium transistors. Same three beefy AC motors, same solenoid controls (though with more logic), same head arrangement, and even better general reparability. I’ll probably end up with two functional Teac decks when I can hardly justify one. Such is the disease.

Rick “a fool and his money and all that” Denney

Reviving a Dead Thread here....

How did the new deck work, Rick? I've got a 4010SU that I just rebuilt. Works fabulous on tapes *I* make, but all the prerecorded tapes the guy I got the deck from gave to me are running "fast", and have an "Alvin and The Chipmunks" sound. I suspect when he made them overseas he was running on 50Hz power, but I'll have to look into that further.

Regards, Jim

 

[Doodski]

Works fabulous on tapes *I* make, but all the prerecorded tapes the guy I got the deck from gave to me are running "fast", and have an "Alvin and The Chipmunks" sound. I suspect when he made them overseas he was running on 50Hz power, but I'll have to look into that further.

You'll find a speed control at the motor usually. It requires a small slotted screwdriver to twist it. Sometimes the speed control is at the PCB but that's veryy rare. Like about 1mm or 1.5mm flat screwdriver, depends on the motor model, metal screwdrivers are OK but don't force anything. If you have access to another tape deck that is playing at the proper speed make a 3KHz sine wave tape or buy one and then put that into the Teac you have and set the speed to 3KHz +/- 1%. So between 3030 Hz or 2970 Hz. You can use a frequency counter to see the exact frequency output of the cassette deck when you playback the 3 KHz tape. NOTE: I have not used this specific software frequency counter but there are many available and they are all pretty simple to operate.

 

[Doodski]

Motor type speed control adjustment hole>

PCB type speed control>

 

[drjim]

You'll find a speed control at the motor usually. It requires a small slotted screwdriver to twist it. Sometimes the speed control is at the PCB but that's veryy rare. Like about 1mm or 1.5mm flat screwdriver, depends on the motor model, metal screwdrivers are OK but don't force anything. If you have access to another tape deck that is playing at the proper speed make a 3KHz sine wave tape or buy one and then put that into the Teac you have and set the speed to 3KHz +/- 1%. So between 3030 Hz or 2970 Hz. You can use a frequency counter to see the exact frequency output of the cassette deck when you playback the 3 KHz tape. NOTE: I have not used this specific software frequency counter but there are many available and they are all pretty simple to operate.

I have a ton of test gear (I do radio stuff), so that's no problem. The tapes **I** make sound great. I recorded 15 minutes of music from the Pioneer receiver I have the deck connected to, and they sound very good, at both 3-3/4 and 7-1/2ips. If I recorded a test tone, I would expect it to come out "In Spec", or very close to it.

The problem is that ALL of the tapes the original owner made when he was at the U-Tapao Air Base in Thailand "run too fast", which makes me think he was running it on 50Hz power, and not 60Hz power. All three motors in the deck are AC motors, which are usually "locked" to the line frequency, and there's no "Speed Adjust" controls anywhere I can find, or any mention of them in the Service Manual.

I'm shopping for a "real" Test Tape right now. I'd get one from MRL, but youch, $140? I'm not sure I need a pro-quality test test tape, but it would probably be a good idea, as since I bought this and got it running again (cleaning, demag, remove fossilized lube, relube, etc) I've got people asking me to look at their deck.

The only one of the old tapes I want to save is a Bob Hope USO show. I can transfer that to my A/V PC and use Audacity to "correct" the pitch, but it was a step I'd hope I didn't need.

- Jim

 

[Doodski]

I have a ton of test gear (I do radio stuff), so that's no problem. The tapes **I** make sound great. I recorded 15 minutes of music from the Pioneer receiver I have the deck connected to, and they sound very good, at both 3-3/4 and 7-1/2ips. If I recorded a test tone, I would expect it to come out "In Spec", or very close to it.

The problem is that ALL of the tapes the original owner made when he was at the U-Tapao Air Base in Thailand "run too fast", which makes me think he was running it on 50Hz power, and not 60Hz power. All three motors in the deck are AC motors, which are usually "locked" to the line frequency, and there's no "Speed Adjust" controls anywhere I can find, or any mention of them in the Service Manual.

I'm shopping for a "real" Test Tape right now. I'd get one from MRL, but youch, $140? I'm not sure I need a pro-quality test test tape, but it would probably be a good idea, as since I bought this and got it running again (cleaning, demag, remove fossilized lube, relube, etc) I've got people asking me to look at their deck.

The only one of the old tapes I want to save is a Bob Hope USO show. I can transfer that to my A/V PC and use Audacity to "correct" the pitch, but it was a step I'd hope I didn't need.

- Jim

Ahhh I read very quickly and thought you have a cassette deck. OOPs!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I have a ton of test gear (I do radio stuff), so that's no problem. The tapes **I** make sound great. I recorded 15 minutes of music from the Pioneer receiver I have the deck connected to, and they sound very good, at both 3-3/4 and 7-1/2ips. If I recorded a test tone, I would expect it to come out "In Spec", or very close to it.

The problem is that ALL of the tapes the original owner made when he was at the U-Tapao Air Base in Thailand "run too fast", which makes me think he was running it on 50Hz power, and not 60Hz power. All three motors in the deck are AC motors, which are usually "locked" to the line frequency, and there's no "Speed Adjust" controls anywhere I can find, or any mention of them in the Service Manual.

I'm shopping for a "real" Test Tape right now. I'd get one from MRL, but youch, $140? I'm not sure I need a pro-quality test test tape, but it would probably be a good idea, as since I bought this and got it running again (cleaning, demag, remove fossilized lube, relube, etc) I've got people asking me to look at their deck.

The only one of the old tapes I want to save is a Bob Hope USO show. I can transfer that to my A/V PC and use Audacity to "correct" the pitch, but it was a step I'd hope I didn't need.

- Jim

Easy peasy - just build a 120V (or 240V) variable frequency oscillator to drive the capstan motor in your machine.

 

[drjim]

Easy peasy - just build a 120V (or 240V) variable frequency oscillator to drive the capstan motor in your machine.

HAH! I designed those things for 6 years back in the late 70's/early 80's.

 

[rdenney]

Yup, the 4010 uses a synchronous AC motor, like nearly all of the Teac A-series decks.

Final outcome? I thought I’d covered that in subsequent posts. The only thing I’ve done since then is install the ball-bearing pinch roller I bought from a guy in Italy, Gianni, whose business is SofH. Works fine. I’ll have the old one rebuilt by Terry once he’s healthy, to have as a backup.

I’ve integrated it with my main system using a Niles Audio TSB-3. My two tape decks use that device to share Tape 1 in my preamp, leaving Tape 2 for my ADC and DAC. Any flaw that device introduces isn’t critical on the tape decks.

A slow motor could indeed by caused by running it on 50 Hz. There is a belt pulley position for 50 Hz power, but changing the voltage is a more complex process.

Reportedly, these motors can sometimes run a bit slowly, with the only recourse being to machine the pulley. Mine are fine—the frequencies on the test tapes run close to the correct speed. I doubt that the gross error you report was caused by that, however.

Rick “still has a 4010 in the adjustment queue” Denney

 

[drjim]

Yup, the 4010 uses a synchronous AC motor, like nearly all of the Teac A-series decks.

Final outcome? I thought I’d covered that in subsequent posts. The only thing I’ve done since then is install the ball-bearing pinch roller I bought from a guy in Italy, Gianni, whose business is SofH. Works fine. I’ll have the old one rebuilt by Terry once he’s healthy, to have as a backup.

I’ve integrated it with my main system using a Niles Audio TSB-3. My two tape decks use that device to share Tape 1 in my preamp, leaving Tape 2 for my ADC and DAC. Any flaw that device introduces isn’t critical on the tape decks.

A slow motor could indeed by caused by running it on 50 Hz. There is a belt pulley position for 50 Hz power, but changing the voltage is a more complex process.

Reportedly, these motors can sometimes run a bit slowly, with the only recourse being to machine the pulley. Mine are fine—the frequencies on the test tapes run close to the correct speed. I doubt that the gross error you report was caused by that, however.

Rick “still has a 4010 in the adjustment queue” Denney

Hi, Rick, and thanks for the reply. I didn't realize this was a four-page thread until after I posted!

I just ran a crude test and it seems to be running about 20% too fast. Since this is roughly the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz, I might be on to it.

I marked a tape, ran it for 10 seconds at each speed, and then stopped the tape and marked it again. Then I unspooled the tape and measured between the marks. I expected 37.5" and got 45". I expected 75", and got almost 90". That's about 20% too much tape, so it's definitely running too fast.

This is an oddball A-4010, as it's an A-410SU. The "U" version was only sold to US Military people through their base BX/PX. The main differences that I've found (so far...) are that it does not have a line voltage or frequency selector like the others. The manual states "115VAC/60Hz", and the schematic for the transport is slightly different, as it doesn't have the capacitor and switch for 50/60Hz selection, and the power transformer has a single primary with no voltage adjust taps.

I'm beginning to wonder if I put the capstan belt on wrong. I didn't know they used a pulley with two steps in it. The capstan belt that was in it had broken in to three pieces, so I had no reference as to how to put it back (the manual is pretty vague), and put it back the way it appeared to go; decent tension on it, no slippage. Now I'm wondering if there's a smaller pulley under the "big" one on top that I didn't see.

- Jim

 

[rdenney]

My recollection of the 4010 is that it uses the inner pulley, closest to the motor, but that's a fuzzy memory. But there are only two choices and you know the current one is wrong This is the motor pulley, not the capstan flywheel.

Rick "good luck" Denney

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Hi, Rick, and thanks for the reply. I didn't realize this was a four-page thread until after I posted!

I just ran a crude test and it seems to be running about 20% too fast. Since this is roughly the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz, I might be on to it.

I marked a tape, ran it for 10 seconds at each speed, and then stopped the tape and marked it again. Then I unspooled the tape and measured between the marks. I expected 37.5" and got 45". I expected 75", and got almost 90". That's about 20% too much tape, so it's definitely running too fast.

This is an oddball A-4010, as it's an A-410SU. The "U" version was only sold to US Military people through their base BX/PX. The main differences that I've found (so far...) are that it does not have a line voltage or frequency selector like the others. The manual states "115VAC/60Hz", and the schematic for the transport is slightly different, as it doesn't have the capacitor and switch for 50/60Hz selection, and the power transformer has a single primary with no voltage adjust taps.

I'm beginning to wonder if I put the capstan belt on wrong. I didn't know they used a pulley with two steps in it. The capstan belt that was in it had broken in to three pieces, so I had no reference as to how to put it back (the manual is pretty vague), and put it back the way it appeared to go; decent tension on it, no slippage. Now I'm wondering if there's a smaller pulley under the "big" one on top that I didn't see.

- Jim

Regardless of mains frequency, isn't 7 1/2 ips the same regardless of the machine it was recorded on?

 

[rdenney]

Regardless of mains frequency, isn't 7 1/2 ips the same regardless of the machine it was recorded on?

He's saying that his machine is not playing at 7-1/2 ips, but rather at 6-1/4 ips, and we are concluding that it's because the belt is on the larger 50 Hz pulley instead of the smaller 60 Hz pulley.

Of course, if he records at 6-1/4 ips, and plays back at 6-1/4 ips, everything sounds correct. But a pre-recorded tape played back at 6-1/4 ips is going to sound slow. His recordings sound great but commercial recordings don't.

Rick "thinking you missed what he was saying" Denney

 

[drjim]

Rick is correct, and he explained it in a different way. Prerecorded tapes sound "too fast", with everything shifted up in frequency, and compressed in time, while the recordings that I make with my own program material sound very good.

I didn't know the pulley on the capstan motor had two steps, and it's obvious (now) that I have it on the "wrong" (50Hz) step.

Not too hard to pull the front panel and check/correct my error.

- Jim

 

[drjim]

**FIXED IT**

Thanks to Rick's suggestion that I had the belt on the wrong set of pulleys, I pulled the front panel tonight, and correct my self-induced problem.
This is the belt on the 50HZ set of steps:

And this is the belt on the 60Hz steps:

And all the prerecorded tapes I have now sound great. The Service Manual I have for this deck doesn't mention 50/60Hz positions, and neither does the original owner's manual. Dummy me (hey, I'm out of practice!) didn't think to LOOK for #1, two sets of steps, and #2 some wear marks telling me which set had been in use.

Thanks again, guys!!

- Jim

 

[rdenney]

Good!

But allow me to make a suggestion. Immediately, if not sooner, replace all those Suzuki paper-in-oil 400VAC 0.1-mF capacitors that act as snubbers on the switches and relay contacts. These are called Suzuki Bombs for a reason. The short out and explode. I lost the one in the left reel table brake micro switch (upper left in your photo) and it was Big Bang followed by a cloud of smoke. Fortunately, the covers was in place instead of my face. The end blew off and the rolled dielectric (plus what was left of the oil) was widely distributed around the deck’s interior.

I replaced mine with these 630VAC 0.1 uF film caps:

https://www.radiodaze.com/axial-film-1mf-630v/

You’ll need 8 or 10 of them, but they are cheap.

Rick “keeping the magic smoke where it belongs” Denney

 

[drjim]

Yeah, that's next on the list. I usually get those parts from DigiKey or Mouser. How bout those funny diodes in the round plastic cases? They give any problems? Or that (YECH!) Selenium Rectifier that's in there? I do a ton of other "Old Radio" and "Old Audio Gear" things, but this is the first tape deck I've owned in about 15 years. I lugged my old Sony TC-630 around since I bought it in 1968, and it finally gave up the ghost.

It's good to have decent tape machine in the house!

- Jim

 

[rdenney]

I haven’t fully checked the electronics in my 4010, though it does play and the mechanics work well. I did have to replace a transistor (died of leg rot) and some small caps on the 4300’s line amp, which then required a full recalibration. I’m sure the 4010 needs that, too. Probably all the electrolytics are suspect, but I am not up for that big of a project just yet. Most of the issues were dirty switches, relays, and mechanics.

Those Sony decks are ugly on the inside. I’ll take a three-motor Teac any day. The Sony I have sorta works, but making it work well would be a major overhaul, and the heads are too worn out to make it worth it.

Rick “whose father bought that Sony at a garage sale” Denney

 

[drjim]

Oh, yeah on the Sony....Linkages, Wheels, and Springs....OH MY! Spent $400 on it, almost all of my summer job money, in 1968. Still remember driving up to Allied Radio in Chicago to pick it up. Had it for 40 years, and two wives. On wife #2, and this is tape deck #2.
I've got proper test gear to align the electronics, proper, grounded work surfaces and soldering/desoldering equipment to fix anything I find. Read about the "leg rot", and how to find replacement transistors. Hope the electronic alignment goes well when I get to it. Got an old Heathkit Amateur Radio transmitter on the bench now, just about finished. Probably do the TEAC when that's done.

 

[drjim]

Well, I joined Rick in the "Two TEAC Club". While I enjoy my 4010, and it has interesting "provenance", after pouring through all the TEAC models listed over on reel-to-reel.com, I decided a 4300SX was a better machine for me, and found one in outrageously good condition over on ePay. Made the seller an offer, and he accepted.

It should be here tomorrow, and I'll find out if it's as good as the pix make it out to be.

I still want a 6300/6600, but I'll have to save my pennies and save my dimes to get a decent one. Don't mind doing electrical/electronic/mechanical repair but the cosmetic stuff can be a PITA to get it right.

Jim

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

This is a mutt I rescued from eBay. It truly belongs in the "Old Crappy Tape Deck" thread, because it IS old and very, very crappy. But it has special significance because this model was my first "real" tape recorder. All the recorders I owned before this were those rim drive models you could buy at the local Thrifty Drug Store. But this was the real thing! Webcor also made a model at the time called the "Professional" (there are pictures on the interwebs). I really lusted after that one because I wanted to be, you know, professional. It looked just like one of those Space Age IBM computer thingies.

As you can see, this specimen is in very good condition after I gave it a good cleaning and polish. I didn't bother with any electronic adjustments beyond just verifying that it works - what would be the point of tweaking the bias!? It is shown here playing a copy of an Enoch Light recording of the day, "Dimension 3", but I'm sure you already guessed that.

One thing I noticed when I opened it up was that a linkage that had to do with the (complex) record knob arrangement apparently never had a "C" clip holding it together. This would have made it impossible to record. I fixed that and it records as expected. One bonus is that since it never could record, the nifty "magic eye" record level indicator is in factory new condition!

For those of you who enjoy figuring out an eyestrain inducing schematic, I offer this: Bonus points for those who can figure out in less than a minute where the bias oscillator is and how it works.