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Okto Dac8 Pro alternative?

jtwrace

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"I am very sorry for the late reply, I overlooked your email that Eliska forwarded to me ...."
Totally inexcusable as it's a trend and not a one off.

@Okto Research needs to read this book.

done.jpg
 

MFJG

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Finally a response from Pavel (Okto Research), it is unexpected after several weeks and many emails :
"I am very sorry for the late reply, I overlooked your email that Eliska forwarded to me ...."
If Okto DAC8 PRO is a very good device, unfortunately the company is not up to the task.
Jacky, I'll buy that Okto DAC8 Pro off of you. What is the voltage out?
 

phoenixdogfan

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FWIW, I paid full retail for my Okto DAC and have the same expectations as any other purchaser. They have not responded to most of my emails either.
One or two person operation. My other genius/problem child component is the Smyth A16 Realizer. and all you have to do is go to the A16 thread in Head Fi, pick out any two pages at random and read to find numerous complaints re responsiveness and communication.

It comes with the territory.
 

Kal Rubinson

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One or two person operation. My other genius/problem child component is the Smyth A16 Realizer. and all you have to do is go to the A16 thread in Head Fi, pick out any two pages at random and read to find numerous complaints re responsiveness and communication.

It comes with the territory.
I know. They promised me one for review for a while and then said they could lend it for a day or two. My friend got stiffed on their Kickstarter deal.
 

phoenixdogfan

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I know. They promised me one for review for a while and then said they could lend it for a day or two. My friend got stiffed on their Kickstarter deal.
If I can bring myself to actually part with it for a while, I'll lend mine out for review. But right now I have it working and it's too much fun. Plus, I have more PRIRs to get. Plus it's still a work in progress, and I'd hate to see it panned before they have the opportunity to put it in something approximating its final form.
 
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phoenixdogfan

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Hello , thanks for this proposal but i will try to keep my DAC8 despite the communication problems !
Unless Pavel dies, they're not going out of business. They have more people wanting it, than they can make. And as you know, there's really nothing out there quite like it.
 

Jacky

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I understand that they have production problems but communicating and informing is also good for everyone (see #81) ;)
 

Kal Rubinson

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If I can bring myself to actually part with it for a while, I'll lend mine out for review. But right now I have it working and it's too much fun. Plus, I have more PRIRs to get. Plus it's still a work in progress, and I'd hate to see it panned before they have the opportunity to put it in something approximating its final form.
Thanks but the Smyths have worn out my patience/tolerance.
 

Jacky

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I am curious what problems you are having with your Okto DAC8 pro. Are you getting dropouts / crackling with the DDRC-88D? Or is it something else?
I had two problems , one with the input/output matrix and one with standby mode :
- matrix , some month ago , the matrix got mixed up after a power cut => disconnection of the power cable and reset to default OK
- matrix : signal on one input , left channel only , signal on the out1 on both channels (L+ R) => disconnection of the power cable and reset to default OK
- stand by mode on 10 min : no signal on inputs but the Dac8 stays power on => not transmitted yet to Pavel
 

JP

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I know. They promised me one for review for a while and then said they could lend it for a day or two. My friend got stiffed on their Kickstarter deal.

Did they stop fulfilling the Kickstarter orders? I know it's been REALLY slow - finally got mine at the beginning of summer.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Did they stop fulfilling the Kickstarter orders? I know it's been REALLY slow - finally got mine at the beginning of summer.
I do not know but I do know that they have completely ignored all his attempts (and mine) to contact them about his order.
 

JP

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I do not know but I do know that they have completely ignored all his attempts (and mine) to contact them about his order.

Wow, my dates were off - August 2020 is when I received mine. Looking at the thread on HF it seems they haven't shipped to any KS backers since October 2020, noting around ~20 backers to go. No idea where that data came from. Really chaps that they're purportedly not fulfilling backer or pre-order units but are selling retail. One person reported changing their preorder to retail and getting a unit within a week - this was last month.

Reminds me, I need to sell mine. For as much as I'd use it I'm good with my A8.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Wow, my dates were off - August 2020 is when I received mine. Looking at the thread on HF it seems they haven't shipped to any KS backers since October 2020, noting around ~20 backers to go. No idea where that data came from. Really chaps that they're purportedly not fulfilling backer or pre-order units but are selling retail. One person reported changing their preorder to retail and getting a unit within a week - this was last month.
Yeah. I have two friends (for the purpose of this post). One was a KS backer and has received no reply/compensation to date. The same week that I contacted Smyth on his behalf (to no avail), I also contacted them on behalf of my other friend who, in the midst of a major life change needed an A16. They were responsive and, I must admit, gave him a good deal on his purchase. Strange.
 

goldistan

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I have solved my remaining issues with using multiple Topping E30 in a stereo/surround setup:

IR remote is not accurate: I fitted a cheap USB powered IR Repeater (1 Receiver &4 Emitters) and remote control now works 100% across all DACs.

Auto Standby (A-O) doesn't work with the HD621 or the Squeezebox Touch: I disabled Auto Standby (A-C) and instead power them on/off using 2x Hue Bridge plugs (remote controlled with Harmony Elite). This allows me to separate DAC1 for stereo use and DAC234 for surround duties. The Hue Bridge plugs were in my system anyway for devices without remote control (Plug1 for Power amps, Plug2 for nanoAVRs etc.)

I need more inputs: I installed a cheap IR remote controlled 3-in x 2-out optical toslink switch.

The Logitech Harmony Elite reliably manages everything for easy use by family.

How do you you know the DACs are in phase?
Do they take clock from the input? any way to test this? I'm running LX521 so everything has to be in phase
 

goldistan

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If you have a DDRC-88D I would go with 4 stereo DACs as it will keep them all in sync.

Michael
I'm shopping for a miniDSP analog section replacement and considering this setup, but using the cheaper miniDSP unit that has no Dirac and digital-only 2x8 (I hope they still make it). How did you verify the different DACs are in phase?
 

mdsimon2

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I'm shopping for a miniDSP analog section replacement and considering this setup, but using the cheaper miniDSP unit that has no Dirac and digital-only 2x8 (I hope they still make it). How did you verify the different DACs are in phase?

With a two channel ADC. Connect the two DAC channels you want to compare to the ADC. You can use REW for the measurements using one channel as a timing reference for the other. When doing these measurements I will keep the timing reference constant (let's call this channel 1) and then make measurements for the other 2-8 channels.

A frequency sweep in REW should show flat phase response, if it doesn't that means something is off. The delays (if they exist) are usually a few samples. For example if I was running at 96 kHz and I saw I difference of 150 deg at 20 kHz that would imply a delay of 150 deg x (1 cycle / 360 deg) x (1 sec / 20000 cycles) x (96000 samples / 1 sec) = 2 samples.

You can also play a 1 kHz tone and observe the waveform differences, they should be right on top of each other but if they are not you have a delay issue.

You can then adjust the delay in DSP to compensate, for example on that 2 sample delay example adding a delay of 2 samples x (1 sec / 96000 samples) x (1000 ms / 1 sec) = 0.02 ms to the channel that is "ahead" should result in flat phase response and perfect waveform sync.

You can see these measurements in this post -> #200.

For reference I have never seen any phase issues on miniDSP products with digital outputs (nanoDIGI, miniSHARC, SHD Studio) and have only seen them on audio interfaces when using TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES inputs.

What is your budget and what inputs / outputs do you need? nanoDIGIs are hard to find these days and you still need 4 decent DACs which is quite expensive.

Michael
 

goldistan

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With a two channel ADC. Connect the two DAC channels you want to compare to the ADC. You can use REW for the measurements using one channel as a timing reference for the other. When doing these measurements I will keep the timing reference constant (let's call this channel 1) and then make measurements for the other 2-8 channels.

A frequency sweep in REW should show flat phase response, if it doesn't that means something is off. The delays (if they exist) are usually a few samples. For example if I was running at 96 kHz and I saw I difference of 150 deg at 20 kHz that would imply a delay of 150 deg x (1 cycle / 360 deg) x (1 sec / 20000 cycles) x (96000 samples / 1 sec) = 2 samples.

You can also play a 1 kHz tone and observe the waveform differences, they should be right on top of each other but if they are not you have a delay issue.

You can then adjust the delay in DSP to compensate, for example on that 2 sample delay example adding a delay of 2 samples x (1 sec / 96000 samples) x (1000 ms / 1 sec) = 0.02 ms to the channel that is "ahead" should result in flat phase response and perfect waveform sync.

You can see these measurements in this post -> #200.

For reference I have never seen any phase issues on miniDSP products with digital outputs (nanoDIGI, miniSHARC, SHD Studio) and have only seen them on audio interfaces when using TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES inputs.

What is your budget and what inputs / outputs do you need? nanoDIGIs are hard to find these days and you still need 4 decent DACs which is quite expensive.

Michael
I have LX521, 8ch active speakers.
Currently using miniDSP 4x10HD which does everything in one box. I hate the volume control so much I want to replace the whole rig.
I'm not letting anything made by miniDSP nor Microsoft control the volume, it has to be done post-DSP.

I see nanoDIGI is discontinued, so the remaining option is DDRC-88D + 4 DACs.
DDRC88 has 8xAES out, does this mean I can't trust it?

Edit: based on your post #200 the answer is no, this setup can't be trusted at all, the sample delays change when you power the device on/off. Looks like I'm stuck with miniDSP 4x10 forever.
 
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mdsimon2

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I have LX521, 8ch active speakers.
Currently using miniDSP 4x10HD which does everything in one box. I hate the volume control so much I want to replace the whole rig.
I'm not letting anything made by miniDSP nor Microsoft control the volume, it has to be done post-DSP.

I see nanoDIGI is discontinued, so the remaining option is DDRC-88D + 4 DACs.
DDRC88 has 8xAES out, does this mean I can't trust it?

Edit: based on your post #200 the answer is no, this setup can't be trusted at all, the sample delays change when you power the device on/off. Looks like I'm stuck with miniDSP 4x10 forever.

You never answered my question about specific input / output requirements. :)

Reading between the lines if you are considering the DDRC-88D you either have a single SPDIF or AES source? As far as outputs I am assuming you want balanced outputs? If you are not using digital volume control I assume you have an 8 channel analog volume control?

I would absolutely trust the DDRC-88D when used with 4 stereo DACs. All testing that I have done on the miniSHARC (base unit of the DDRC-88D) indicates there will be no issues with delay.

I believe I've suggested this before but it seems like a MOTU Ultralite Mk5 with CamillaDSP on a RPi4 would solve all your issues. Cost is less than a DDRC-88D ($600). It has TOSLINK and SPDIF inputs (also USB). If you are OK without using a remote it will do volume control via a knob as well. It gives you a web interface that you can modify your EQ settings and even do volume control via DSP (if you wanted to do that).

Michael
 
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