OHIO Speaker Design Competition 2024

[DanielT]

Parts Express 2024 competition. I only found one video. It did not contain much information, but on the other hand, you can see many exciting speakers in that short video.
Andrew Jones was one of the judges in the competition. If anyone participated in the competition or visited the event, please tell us what you thought of it.

Speaker Design Competition

Previous events:

2023 Parts Express [Speaker Design Competition]

I am posting the videos I found about it. I just started checking them out. This will be fun to see what the DIY participants have to show this year.:D Feel free to comment on what you see.:)

audiosciencereview.com

2022 Parts Express [Speaker Design Competition] - Under $300 Category

Thought that category could get its own thread. Over $300 see: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/2022-parts-express-speaker-design-competition-over-300-category.37201/page-2#post-1322759 In any case. An example in video. Whatever they sound like, hats off to creative...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[aschen]

Really cool they do this and awesome of andrew jones to participate as well.

Brain tells me some of these oddball designs may not be ideal, but I really appreciate the creativity and the spirit of the diy community. Always impressed by the craftsmanship on some diy builds

 

[DVDdoug]

The one that looks like a tripod looks cool, but cabinet volume is almost always useful/useable so it's probably not the best use of space.

 

[a4eaudio]

Brain tells me some of these oddball designs may not be ideal, but I really appreciate the creativity and the spirit of the diy community. Always impressed by the craftsmanship on some diy builds

Yes. There are 6 scoring categories:

1. Clarity
2. Craftsmanship
3. Dynamic Range
4. Originality/Design
5. Soundstage/imaging
6. Tonal Balance

2. Pretty much ensures that even if you have a great sounding speaker it isn't going to place if you don't have some nice craftsmanship.
4. Leads to some "oddball" designs or at least a lot of things that aren't just rectangular prisms.

But everyone knows this coming in, so it works out and is always a great time.

 

[restorer-john]

The judges look really excited to be there...

 

[Ktacos]

They're probably just excited to listen to the same three song clips a hundred times.

 

[DanielT]

The judges look really excited to be there...

View attachment 405135

It can be taken at the end of the day when everyone is a little tired.

They're probably just excited to listen to the same three song clips a hundred times.

HiFi fair music, a nuisance. I experience it much worse at commercial fairs than at DIY ditto but still. Songs that sound good on even inferior HiFi systems are played. Never anything challenging or for HiFi systems demanding music.

This song for example, which in itself is good, I don't know how many times I've heard it at HiFi fairs. Also at HiFi stores when the sellers have to demonstrate their HiFi stuff. Nowadays, I rarely visit any commercial fairs or HiFi stores, but my guess is that this one is still widely played:

Intimate, close-microphone singing by ladies is also played in abundance at HiFi fairs, I think. Songs like this, which also has a clear bass that is appealing to many people to listen to (surprisingly good bass in those relatively small speakers):

Edit:
I think Dominique Fils-Aimé Home is a good song, but only to show an example of music that can be played.

 

[restorer-john]

They're probably just excited to listen to the same three song clips a hundred times.

What's the bet?

Tracy Chapman
Donald Fagen
Diana Krall
Jennifer Warnes
and
Norah Jones

 

[restorer-john]

It can be taken at the end of the day when everyone is a little tired.

HiFi fair music, a nuisance. I experience it much worse at commercial fairs than at DIY ditto but still. Songs that sound good on even inferior HiFi systems are played. Never anything challenging or for HiFi systems demanding music.

This song for example, which in itself is good, I don't know how many times I've heard it at HiFi fairs. Also at HiFi stores when the sellers have to demonstrate their HiFi stuff. Nowadays, I rarely visit any commercial fairs or HiFi stores, but my guess is that this one is still widely played:

Intimate, close-microphone singing by ladies is also played in abundance at HiFi fairs, I think. Songs like this, which also has a clear bass that is appealing to many people to listen to (surprisingly good bass in those relatively small speakers):

Thinking the same here...

 

[DanielT]

A question about all kinds of HiFi fairs where speakers are demonstrated: EQ or not? Is it "cheating", dishonest (if the demonstrator doesn't mention that EQ is used)?
Or is it good because it shows the potential of the speakers together with "aids"?

 

[Purité Audio]

Eq which should only be applied to minimal phase regions of the FR simply removes additions made by the room.
Keith

 

[restorer-john]

A question about all kinds of HiFi fairs where speakers are demonstrated: EQ or not? Is it "cheating", dishonest (if the demonstrator doesn't mention that EQ is used)?

Totally cheating. Traditionally, when hotel rooms were used, they all sounded much the same (poor) but that's the point- the comparisons were fair from room to room. As far as I am concerned, if the loudspeakers are passive, absolutely no EQ should be applied and anyone trying that scam on, should be pilloried.

If they are one of these DSP-in-a-box solutions, you don't know what you're listening to anyway so, all bets are off.

 

[Ktacos]

A question about all kinds of HiFi fairs where speakers are demonstrated: EQ or not? Is it "cheating", dishonest (if the demonstrator doesn't mention that EQ is used)?
Or is it good because it shows the potential of the speakers together with "aids"?

These competitions don't give you the time or tools to EQ a speaker to the rooms, but it's smart to take into the context of the room the speakers are judged in and attempt to tailor the response of the speaker via xover so you can take home the gold if you will. The placement at the PE comeptition has them pulled out quite a bit from the front wall, so a speaker that is flat anechoic will probably sound a bit thin in this context. Wider dispersion is often better as well since it can be tough to get the toe in right quickly, lots of speakers had mismatched toe in when demo'd. The age of the judges also comes into play, lets be honest they're all kind up there in years and likely have some reduced top end to their hearing. I stayed longer last year and most of the speakers that were judged favorably had what sounded to me like elevated top end.

 

[a4eaudio]

A question about all kinds of HiFi fairs where speakers are demonstrated: EQ or not? Is it "cheating", dishonest (if the demonstrator doesn't mention that EQ is used)?
Or is it good because it shows the potential of the speakers together with "aids"?

There are 4 Categories:

1. Open Drivers Under $300
2. Open Drivers Over $300
3. Dayton Audio (Must be Dayton Audio drivers. For those that don't know, Dayton Audio (along with GRS) is a House Brand of Parts Express)
4. Open Unlimited (This category goes on Friday night and includes active speakers which can have EQ, but you don't have time to customize it to the room. The other categories are passive only and take place on Saturday)

What's the bet?

Tracy Chapman
Donald Fagen
Diana Krall
Jennifer Warnes
and
Norah Jones

How many did you have to get right to win the bet? If just one, then you won.

Usually there are three demo tracks (roughly 60 seconds each) for each category above. To Ktacos point, the judges met before the competition and decided they would use just THREE demos for ALL of the categories (see red text below). I get why that is good for them (the judges) but it was pretty painful for the rest of us. It does not seem like they will do this again next year.

Artist	Title	Category	Start	End
Bruce Hornsby	Spider Fingers	Open Unlimited	0:00​	1:10​
Arne Domnérus	Barbados	Open Unlimited	0:00​	1:00​
Sting	If I Ever Lose My Faith In You	Open Unlimited	0:10​	1:11​
The Judds	Why Not Me	Under $300	0:00​	1:06​
Bill Withers Live at Carnegie Hall	Aint No Sunshine	Under $300	0:00​	1:12​
Brian Bromberg	Is That The Best You Can Do ?	Under $300	0:00​	1:01​
Dire Straits	You and Your Friend	Over $300	0:10​	1:22​
Bonny Raitt	Wherever You May Be	Over $300	0:00​	1:00​
Teddy Swims	Lose Control	Over $300	0:04​	1:06​
Tracy Chapman	Give Me One Reason	Dayton Audio	0:00​	1:00​
The Fairfield Four	These Bones	Dayton Audio	0:00​	1:03​
Geoff Castellucci	The Sound of Silence	Dayton Audio	3:25​	4:34​

 

[DWPress]

but it was pretty painful for the rest of us

Ouch indeed!

 

[DanielT]

Did you who were there have a good time? Any highlights?

While I understand hearing three songs over and over again can get a little tiring, I have to say thank you,
a4eaudio, for the list anyway. Tracy Chapman Give Me One Reason. It was a nice song.

But where is the classical music with lots of dynamics and instruments in the orchestra?

Where is piano music with a lot of dynamics. For example something by John Cage:


Edit:
Example of many musicians and singers in a orchestra:

When the composer’s instructions are followed, Mahler’s 8th symphony (nicknamed “Symphony of a Thousand”) demands an orchestra of around 120 musicians, two choirs (each with a minimum of 32 singers), 8 vocal soloists and a boy’s choir.

The score of Arnold Schonberg’s Gurrelieder (1901–10) calls for 20 1st and 20 2nd violins, 16 violas, 16 cellos, 12 double basses; 4 piccolos, 4 flutes, 3 oboes and 2 English horns, 7 clarinets (among these 2 in Eb and 2 bass clarinets), 3 bassoons and 2 double bassoons; 10 horns, 6 trumpets and a bass trumpet, alto trombone, 3 trombones, bass trombone, double bass trombone and tuba. Plus 4 harps, a keyboard player and 5 percussionists. In all 144 musicians, not counting a narrator, five vocal soloists, a huge choir and a separate male choir.

14. Orchestra Size and Setting | The Idiomatic Orchestra

A full orchestra playing Mahler's 8th symphony or Arnold Schonberg’s Gurrelieder live is one thing considering the dynamics it provides. No HiFi system or speakers can reproduce that but you can at least try to fix a system that reproduces it in a way that reminds a little of reality.

Sound imagination can then fill in the big gap regarding what is missing with home HiFi vs live orchestral music.

 

[Ktacos]

Did you who were there have a good time? Any highlights?

Dayton had some nice new domes out on display, been waiting on their release to start a nice three way speaker. Someone it seems no one got any pictures of them, including me.

 

[OldHvyMec]

A question about all kinds of HiFi fairs where speakers are demonstrated: EQ or not?

2017 in the unlimited class a CBT broke up the array into 4 or 6 sections and was controlled by full blown DSPs X 4 or 6. The guy won best in class, and over all.
Those things are EQed, to say the least. They are LOUD too in any size room. I've built a few sets through the years for friends. Sound is everywhere and very little
distortion. The way the room is built has little effect on what the processors can't manipulate.

Lot of fun actually and certainly a talking point when company arrives.

Regards

 

[DanielT]

2017 in the unlimited class a CBT broke up the array into 4 or 6 sections and was controlled by full blown DSPs X 4 or 6. The guy won best in class, and over all.
Those things are EQed, to say the least. They are LOUD too in any size room. I've built a few sets through the years for friends. Sound is everywhere and very little
distortion. The way the room is built has little effect on what the processors can't manipulate.

Lot of fun actually and certainly a talking point when company arrives.

Regards

As long as you tell them that it's part of the solution, it's okay.
In a sense, there is no difference if you fix a crossover plus decent FR (as far as possible) with a passive crossover, or via active crossover or via the digital world. However, I think it's cheating, or dishonest if you tailor a FR for a specific demo room without mentioning it.

You can twist and turn it. Let's say a commercial HiFi fair where everyone is assigned exactly the same type of demo room with the same furniture in them. Is it cheating if a demonstrator fixes the acoustics in his listening room with a combination of diffusion and absorption materials, aids? On the other hand, the visitors see it and they are very likely aware of what it does to the sound. You can guess that visitors are interested in sound and HiFi, so you don't need to point out that:

 

[DanielT]

You who visit these DIY events. What was used to get the speakers going? Any common thread? Is it like at commercial HiFi fairs where the exhibitors are rigidly conservative with vinyl and tube amplifiers in abundance?
Or are the demonstrators more modern at these DIY fairs and plug in lossless streaming/files together with class D amplifier that power up the speakers?

I understand that record players and tube amplifiers are used at commercial HiFi fairs from a purely... commercial perspective. There are quite a few visitors who are willing to spend a good chunk of money on such things. BUT the commercial dynamic is not present at a DIY fair, hence my question above.