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OH, NO! AMIR IS UNDER ATTACK!!!
- Thread starter devinplombier
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And as with any topic, discussion of differences in opinions can only work when both/all parties are working from the same foundation of facts.
When one rejects the facts and asserts a different reality, it becomes a waste of time.
Robin L
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All I gotta say is I grabbed a tub of popcorn and only read Amir's responses. Very entertaining.
sam_adams
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What's wrong with the UFO thread? It has provided members with a wealth of useful, factual information along with many reasoned and well-considered opinions. Just like the vinyl renaissance thread.
respice finem
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One who knows something, doesn't believe in it any more. It's mutually exclusive.
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"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
respice finem
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Exactly. Reality "has been there before" anyway, the real reality, that is, not believed reality.
Real knowledge is, in itself, the end of belief. Otherwise it would be believing to know = not really knowing.
Belief - Wikipedia
Knowledge - Wikipedia
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Talisman
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I won't read that thread; I'm not really interested. Not because I don't want to hear opinions different from mine, but because I already know the problem.
People can't accept that what they like best isn't universally "best" for everyone. There's a mechanism in people that makes this thought unbearable.
I love my Klipsch RP280Fs, and I live happily on a forum that systematically trashes this brand. The forum and measurements tell me exactly what an audio component's performance is; my head tells me which one I like; the two don't clash in my mind; in fact, they're complementary. I want to know the truth; what to choose is a different matter entirely, and it's entirely up to me.
People can't accept that what they like best isn't universally "best" for everyone. There's a mechanism in people that makes this thought unbearable.
I love my Klipsch RP280Fs, and I live happily on a forum that systematically trashes this brand. The forum and measurements tell me exactly what an audio component's performance is; my head tells me which one I like; the two don't clash in my mind; in fact, they're complementary. I want to know the truth; what to choose is a different matter entirely, and it's entirely up to me.
solderdude
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The whole thing is ... you can't argue with stupid convinced folks.
That's the predicament @amirm is in, in that Audiogon thread.
Not responding is not an option (suggests defeat) and responding makes it worse as there will always be replies by 'word artists'.
One cannot convince people that are already convinced no matter what arguments are used.
That's the predicament @amirm is in, in that Audiogon thread.
Not responding is not an option (suggests defeat) and responding makes it worse as there will always be replies by 'word artists'.
One cannot convince people that are already convinced no matter what arguments are used.
Yes and no. In a debate you'll never convince someone with your arguments if they think their arguments are valid. The first step is always to destroy methodically their arguments, make it clear their knowledge is failing them, you sort of make room in their heads before you expose yours.
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Debates are pretty much never about persuading ones opponent -- they're about persuading persuadable folks, if there are any, among those in attendance.
If you want to persuade someone all the objective evidence is that first you have to listen to them and ask questions, find points of agreement and admit uncertainties and when we are wrong .
Humans are subjective so if you want to persuade someone you need to appeal to their emotional side primarily. You can then give them the evidence to look at and help them decide for themselves. Attacking and insulting people has not been found to objectively a good strategy if you really want to persuade people.
Humans are attracted to easy simple solutions which gives them the comfort of certainty. In reality the world is invariably more complex than that and the truth more nuanced. History has shown us that while popular you should be wary of anyone offering simple easy answers.
Humans are subjective so if you want to persuade someone you need to appeal to their emotional side primarily. You can then give them the evidence to look at and help them decide for themselves. Attacking and insulting people has not been found to objectively a good strategy if you really want to persuade people.
Humans are attracted to easy simple solutions which gives them the comfort of certainty. In reality the world is invariably more complex than that and the truth more nuanced. History has shown us that while popular you should be wary of anyone offering simple easy answers.
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Karlinamillion
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The style of writing of Summit's posts reminds me of AI
I was wondering if it was our recently discouraged commenter “Imadch”, who went away mad (and confused) but the style doesn’t match.
There was a high end shop in Summit NJ with a particularly preachy owner (20 yrs ago).
I tried to bring a blind-test challenge to Audiogon ages ago. The moderator deleted my posts repeatedly and I was subjected to the same wall of nonsense Amir is battling. I haven’t participated since. In particular the “I’ve listed to/owned a lot of expensive equipment” justification for expertise is sort of worshipped over there. There was a guy *bragging* about how many ridiculously expensive amplifiers he’d owned, and this gave him huge street cred in their “sighted listening is knowing” world.
For some reason it’s a little frustrating to see the deluded hive at work, but I freely admit that’s irrational.
Not quite as irrational as thinking our focus on measurements is ruining their hobby.
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at least they're not playing a 40 kHz tone and asking you to click if you hear anything...
Even better, a null comparison file for cheap and expensive cables/DACs
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