OH, NO! AMIR IS UNDER ATTACK!!!

[devinplombier]

Amir is being ambushed by townies over at Audiogon!

This discussion has been removed 195729

The place where audiophiles talk. Ask a question; get advice. Or just speak your mind.

forum.audiogon.com

 

[RDoc]

Yeah, well ... as they say: Please Don't Feed the Trolls.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I don't think anyone is losing too much sleep about that article. Nighty night!

 

[Devnull]

Think about the fact that they have 14000+ threads in their cable subforum and have people there recommending power cables costing thousands of dollars and claiming that they make an audible difference. Enough said.....

 

[sam_adams]

They're just jealous . . .

 

[JSmith]

Seems Amir is quite active in the thread and holding his own quite well;

Posts by amir_asr

Here is what amir_asr has to say.

forum.audiogon.com

JSmith

 

[Snoopy]

First post seems to be asking about more and different tests.
Doesn’t really read like a attack going through the first few posts ? Even some people don’t even agree with OP.

 

[devinplombier]

Around page 5 or 6 nasty ad hominem attacks start creeping in.

 

[Karmacoma]

Had a look at the thread. It's paralogism's paradise, before teaching them science, Amir should teach them logic, first things first.

 

[dfuller]

Wow, that was... dumb. A whole lot of 3 people insisting cables have to make a difference because there's an AES paper about it, and the AES paper shows... wait for it... that balanced and unbalanced connections can sound different. Not cables, that wasn't controlled for. Balanced vs unbalanced.

Subjective audiophiles are a special breed, man...

 

[Soria Moria]

That place is unbearable!

 

[Good Vibes]

It is normal and perfectly fine for people to have differences in perspectives, perceptions and opinions. The difficult part is expressing and receiving conflicting ideas respectfully. Engaging in healthy, productive discussion consumes precious time and energy and depending on who it is with, can be a total waste of both.

 

[Phorize]

Against my better judgement I read the thread. It's like the last 200 years of philosophical advancement never happened. That said I wonder how many of them would be happy to get on an aeroplane that had been assembled according to principles of the audiophile theory of knowledge.

 

[respice finem]

In modern times, (nearly) everybody can read and write, but it's in vain for those who don't really think.
The "masses" will believe any narrative.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

My primary takeaway from skimming through that thread is that Amir has the patience of a saint -- either that or superhuman determination and restraint. In any event, kudos are certainly due!

 

[BlueMeanie]

That's a lot of words...

 

[solderdude]

Therefore,

I want audio science review and other “objective” reviewers to measure the analog waveform from a DAC, CD Player, or amplifier with the following methodology:

1. Measure using an ADC (analog-to-digital convertor) map out the waveform and show us the actual output.
2. Compare more high-end gear with budget audio equipment designed for the same task by using an audio file comparator in WaveLab and/or Blue2Digital to determine the similarity between them expressed as a percentage. etc.

1: What a silly man.... doesn't the 'summit' guy understand ? THAT is exactly what the APx555 and Klippel is/does.

2:
A: owners would need to send in that expensive gear + the cheap gear they want compared otherwise there are a gazillion 'comparisons' possible.
B: what's wrong with PKane's comparator ?
C: is there a standard for this (comparisons and expressing that in a defined percentage that correlates with 'perception' ? and why and when would a device difference become a single percentage number and what is the audibility of it and for whom ?
D: When testing amplifiers .... what load should be used for (each) comparison ?


The following is what I (and reckon most if not all ASR members agree with:

My fellow audiophiles, enjoy the music and don’t let anyone tell you not to spend money on that new stereo, upgrade, speakers, or whatever it is. It’s your money and we have this one life (as far as I’m aware) to enjoy existence. Since we found this hobby and thoroughly enjoy it,

The following is petty complaining.

others should not be allowed to attempt to take away our joy by focusing only on numbers and metrics; especially those that are inconclusive at best.

ASR is not doing that at all. Signal fidelity is measured and reported (charted, not just numbers) and they don't take away joy.
It is the reader of an article by an owner who loves some device to death where that specific device is not measuring well and hates the reporting and Amir's (or respondents) don't particularly like.

Listening is the ultimate test.

Controlled listening is.... just 'listening' is.... just listening and not conclusive other than .. I like it or I don't... a personal thing.
Measurements are indicators for signal fidelity.
Music listening is about enjoyment of music ... in whatever size shape and form it comes.

 

[voodooless]

The following is what I (and reckon most if not all ASR members agree with:

I don't; vehemently! We have an industry, trying (and being very effective) for decades to tell people where, what, and how much money they should spend on their audio pleasure. So then why can't I tell them why they should not spend that money? And the irony is even worse:

Think about the fact that they have 14000+ threads in their cable subforum and have people there recommending power cables costing thousands of dollars and claiming that they make an audible difference. Enough said.....

Indeed

 

[MarkS]

The opening post is pretty hilarious:

First, Let’s backtrack to the golden days of Hi-Fi.

OK! When was that? Tube radios in the 40s maybe? DIY speakers in the 60s?

The late 1980s and all throughout the 1990s.

LOL!

... If a manufacturer back then released rubbish gear, it was completely dismissed by families, not just the individual audio enthusiast or lone audiophiles.

Families?

Back then, rather than sit in front of a tv screen all day/night and vegetate, people listened to more music, together, as families. It was a wonderful time in history that I wish still existed today.

I'm pretty sure that TV was invented before the late 1980s ...

Thanks for the brief amusement!

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

It's funny, it really is

Food analogies are always there, the same as cars and watches