Octave Music Don Grusin High Resolution Music Analysis (Video)

[thorvat]

About format
Sorry to say I still see 0 interest to publish a 15 minutes video, just to demonstrate a point that a 5 seconds video (to show that the noise doesn't follow music) and 5 paragraphs of text with pictures would have demonstrated more efficiently.

It's just wasting your time and my time.
Too bad, since the content is interesting.

Just my point of view, of course.

But comparing the number of views for the video review and its text equivalent seems to indicate I'm not the only one.

I disagree. @amirm obviosuly enjoyed making this video, for the reasons I can guess and which I symphatize with, as I feel the same toward snake oil vendors. It is up to him to decide how much of his time he will invest in making his video, on his web site, using his money and his equipment etc. I hope you get the point?

Regarding your, and anybody else's time, including mine, it is our decision how we choose to use it. So either we watch the entire video, or watch only 10 seconds with the frequency distribution graph or not watch video at all, we should still respect the man who is offering content on this web site for free, spending his own time and money on that, no matter whether we like the content or not.

If this video has been charged to you on a pay-per-minute basis I would understand your point, but as it was offered for free, from that perspective your post seems ungratefull/unpolite to me.

Just my point of view, of course.

 

[Dennis_FL]

PS Audio has a private music label called "Octave Music." I got a request yesterday to look into their high-resolution offering and see what they are doing in that regard. So I downloaded the Don Grusin "Out of thin air" album ($29) and performed analysis both on the DSD version and PCM. There is also some technical explanation of the formats and explanation for what we see:

Interesting that the high frequency is in a nice bell shaped curve. What's that about?

 

[charleski]

I must admit I haven't read the whole thread, but while we all love to pile in on PS Audio and McGowan's limited grasp of physical reality, I think we should be fair here. The one thing that stands out if we compare this recording to Amir's previous videos on 'hires' downloads is that Octave Records has managed to build a studio free of the sort of intrusive high frequency idle tone interference seen here and here. So their studio infrastructure is at least fit-for-purpose as far as ultrasonic recording goes, which is something you can't say about many of these efforts.

Obviously they then go and ruin it by mixing direct to DSD, but then we all know there's no point to DSD anyway.

 

[charleski]

Interesting that the high frequency is in a nice bell shaped curve. What's that about?

It's noise-shaping, an essential part of the DSD process and the only reason it works.

 

[Rja4000]

It is up to him to decide how much his time he will invest in making his video

Of course.

I sincerely think feedback from usual visitors may be of some use though.
That's why I posted this comment.

And, thinking of your comment about how my post could be seen, my goal is of course not to be rude or aggressive, and I didn't realize it could be perceived that way. (Thanks for your feedback)
Especially since I fully respect Amir's commitment and effort in all this.
He has all my sympathy.

 

[Mnyb]

But why DSD 64 if must go DSD why not higher rates ,makes it easier for conversions to other formats to . I've "heard" that DSD64 is equal to about 20bit in most of the audible range and then actually looses out to CD closer to 20k ?

I think reality is bit more complex does it really exist true PCM ADC ? A DAC nowadays with delta sigma noise shaping is not 1 bit but some hybrid thing with what 5-6bits ? Similar must be true for moderna ADC some hybrid approach to sampling to use less severe analog filters

And you don't brick-wall it in the analog domain at 22k like in the 80's you obviously sample with a modern ADC (whatever hybrid approach they really have, with their internal mathematical filters and a softer analog filter at the front ) and get a format like 24 bits 48/96/192 ( or more ) that fits you work process and go from there ?

And besides the technical part is any of their music good ? artist can sometimes don't be to picky about the label ..

 

[Geert]

Octave Records has managed to build a studio free of the sort of intrusive high frequency idle tone interference seen here and here. So their studio infrastructure is at least fit-for-purpose

Not to fast; the album was recorded at the artists, Don Grusin, own studio complex (where Don has a separate room with his own grand piano). The studio of Octave Records themselves is still under construction.

 

[Geert]

Another funny fact. I already mentioned Octave Recordings purchased this vintage Studer mixing console. However, the Don Grusin record was mixed on a tiny 1.700$ SSL Six mixing desk because it sounded cleaner.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Octave Records is the one owned/operated by PS Audio. …Higher Octave Music is an older label with a lot of fusion and contemporary jazz.

As a professional audiophile, a word of advice, always get the Higher Octave Music

 

[perdido34]

I've downloaded a couple of the Octave Records albums and to me they sound like music which would be playing while you're waiting for your latte at Starbucks. Typical audiophile record label stuff which is well recorded but not what you would want to listen to more than once.

The Octave Records recording of Zuill Bailey playing the Bach cello suites is a fine performance in great sound.

 

[kongwee]

Another funny fact. I already mentioned Octave Recordings purchased this vintage Studer mixing console. However, the Don Grusin record was mixed on a tiny 1.700$ SSL Six mixing desk because it sounded cleaner.

For two channel mix, it is not cheap. Less feature more expensive than a full console.

 

[Michel Forbes]

Hilarious so they mix in analog to be able to keep everything DSD to avoid using a DAW

Nothing wrong with that...that's a technology and an artistic choice.
Read here, in 2001, Chick Corea was recording the first SACD (MCH), Rendez-vous in NY.
Interesting story of an API Analog console and Pyramix DAW.

Merging Technologies | Tribute | Chick Corea

It is with great sadness that I heard of Chick Corea’s passing away earlier this month. I have been and still am an absolute fan as I consider him in the top ten of my all-times preferred musicians, simply put, he is a monument! While Chick is no longer with us, his music will remain forever...

www.merging.com

 

[Geert]

For two channel mix, it is not cheap. Less feature more expensive than a full console.

Great logic. The two channel peak limiter they used is even smaller, has less functionality and is 4k$. One channel of the Neve 900 series mixing console is twice the price of the SSL mixer.

 

[Michel Forbes]

That album was recorded by Scott Faris in Animal Lane Studio, on an analog Trident mixing console. Looks like Octave Records provided the budget, the DSD recorder and did the mastering.

Why is DSD an interesting format if it doesn't offer any benefits to the customer, and how is it a good deal? An album on Bandcamp costs 10$ on average.

If you listen mainly to classical or acoustic music, the DSD format is interesting.
You could add multi-channel support.

 

[DWI]

I've just downloaded one and am enjoying it now. Sounds excellent.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Seems Reddit doesn't like Amirs video. Also, some strangeness in the comments:
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/tc43bu

 

[kchap]

DSD is such a useless format in that it’s actually not theoretically possible to do any kind of post production in that format . You must convert to PCM and do your stuff and then back to DSD this limits the artistic expression that’s is the point of the whole musical endeavour in the first place ?

Even the industry creates a lot of fud around this and use terms as DXD , DXD is just a very high sample rate PCM format

And to compound the issue if you have room EQ or bass management ( or headphone EQ ), which are necessary for hifi sound , gues what you back to pcm again

So the only practical application for DSD is to record already made analog recordings or the “direct to disc” style one take affair acoustical music with severe limits to its production.
And the data can’t be manipulated during playback?

SACD/DSD was originally marketed as method of providing a superior sound to 44.1/16 while keeping the cost of of the DAC in an affordable price range. It was an argument that had merit at the time but the time of DSD has long passed.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The Octave Records recording of Zuill Bailey playing the Bach cello suites is a fine performance in great sound.

Why bother when you can purchase first rate talent and performances of the same music, and sometimes with better sound to boot; Janos Starker on Mercury Living Presence for instance?

 

[Multicore]

It is usually not productive to engage in serious debate of the details of a theology with its believers. Amir is doing it right. State your case, be concise, present the evidence, and move on.

 

[perdido34]

If you listen mainly to classical or acoustic music, the DSD format is interesting.
You could add multi-channel support.

You can add multichannel support without using DSD. For example BIS is a classical label with a huge collection of material. They issue SACDs with multichannel layers, but many of them were recorded (often in great sound) as 24/44.1 or 24/96 PCM files. These files can be purchased and downloaded (including the multichannel option) from eclassical.com. The website shows the original sample rates for these files.