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Objectivist friendly and wallet friendly IEM?

JohnYang1997

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Another probability is the bass dynamic where a single BA driver is usually struggle with it. Small surface from BA driver that cannot push enough air to create realistic bass dynamic. It could probably cause that 'dryness' as well.
No. Never. When insert deep enough .. Oh wait have you insert deep enough?? Er4 needs to be inserted deeper than er2 for enjoyment.
If insert deep enough, it will probably be the best bass you'll ever have, extremely deep but no elevated bass no mud.
 

Earfonia

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No. Never. When insert deep enough .. Oh wait have you insert deep enough?? Er4 needs to be inserted deeper than er2 for enjoyment.
If insert deep enough, it will probably be the best bass you'll ever have, extremely deep but no elevated bass no mud.

That's the no 1 rule for wearing Etymotic, I watched Tyll video explaining the important of deep insertion. so yes, deep enough I guess. I generally do prefer deep insert for IEMs. But I will try ER4 series again when there is a chance. So far they sounds tonally right but also at the same time sounds wrong to me on other aspect that I cannot really explain (that dryness / hardness thingy).
 

JohnYang1997

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That's the no 1 rule for wearing Etymotic, I watched Tyll video explaining the important of deep insertion. so yes, deep enough I guess. I generally do prefer deep insert for IEMs. But I will try ER4 series again when there is a chance. So far they sounds tonally right but also at the same time sounds wrong to me on other aspect that I cannot really explain (that dryness / hardness thingy).
Actually the distortion on the BA drivers sound like a grey metallic fine grain on top of sound and/or some softness like sponge-ish warmth. That's what the distortion sound like, but it doesn't make the sound dry. Does this sound relatable to you?
 

Earfonia

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Actually the distortion on the BA drivers sound like a grey metallic fine grain on top of sound and/or some softness like sponge-ish warmth. That's what the distortion sound like, but it doesn't make the sound dry. Does this sound relatable to you?

I'm not sure if I understand it correctly, yes I can relate the 'dryness' with some metallic sound. As for the sponge-ish warmth is it the lack of 'oomph' and tonal density around the bass area? Probably tonal density communicate better between audiophiles. Yes, I like life-like bass both in tonal density and dynamic, so that probably a bit missing on the ER4 series. Not only clean smooth bass that extend deep into sub bass, that ER4 can achieve, but I prefer more density and oomph.

I generally prefer Hybrid IEM for the dynamic driver to handle the bass section. I rarely like BA driver for bass. So far, to my ears, only Knowles CI-22955 that I found to produce bass that sounds right to my ears. And I often prefer 2x Knowles CI-22955 to get the level of weight and bass density that I like.
 

JohnYang1997

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I'm not sure if I understand it correctly, yes I can relate the 'dryness' with some metallic sound. As for the sponge-ish warmth is it the lack of 'oomph' and tonal density around the bass area? Probably tonal density communicate better between audiophiles. Yes, I like life-like bass both in tonal density and dynamic, so that probably a bit missing on the ER4 series. Not only clean smooth bass that extend deep into sub bass, that ER4 can achieve, but I prefer more density and oomph.

I generally prefer Hybrid IEM for the dynamic driver to handle the bass section. I rarely like BA driver for bass. So far, to my ears, only Knowles CI-22955 that I found to produce bass that sounds right to my ears. And I often prefer 2x Knowles CI-22955 to get the level of weight and bass density that I like.
The spongy warmth is burried in the mids. And it's very subtle. The metallic sound is not what I referred to either. It's like finer sand made out of grey stuff. What tip are you using btw? Small or the larger?
You can try eqing the bass to see if you get impact or not. Well in the end it's what it is. It's not everything but one thing. If you really don't like it then let it be, and I will also accept that. It's fine.
 

Earfonia

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The spongy warmth is burried in the mids. And it's very subtle. The metallic sound is not what I referred to either. It's like finer sand made out of grey stuff. What tip are you using btw? Small or the larger?
You can try eqing the bass to see if you get impact or not. Well in the end it's what it is. It's not everything but one thing. If you really don't like it then let it be, and I will also accept that. It's fine.

So far for ER4SR, ER4XR, and my ER2XR, I use the stock 3 flanges ear tips that comes with it. Fit just fine for me.
Well this is what bothers my mind, that I cannot communicate that 'dryness' aspect when talking about sound quality. So far I suspect short and long decay, or odd harmonics. But I have no way to prove it or measure it. I just want to know what SQ aspects that I heard from all these IEMs that I have and communicate it as clear as possible when people ask about sound quality. But it seems the language of sound is not that universal after all :D

I tried to observe the Impulse Response of my measurement just to see if it makes any sense. For example, here are 4 IR measurement of the following IEMs:

DIY Knowles ED29689 (BA driver used in ER4S & ER4P) - 1 BA IEM: It sounds dry to me.
Tin Audio T3 - Hybrid IEM: Also sounds dry to me
1964 Ears V3 universal (old discontinued model) - 3 BA IEM: Sounds fine to me
Moondrop Crescent - Dynamic driver: Definitely not dry sounding

I observe the T30 value of the IR measurement in REW:
DIY Knowles ED29689: 0.027 s
Tin Audio T3: 0.019 s
1964 Ears V3 universal: 0.053 s
Moondrop Crescent: 0.067 s

It is too early to make any conclusion, but from 4 IEMs above, IEM with the shorter impulse response sound dry to me.

DIY Knowles ED29689:
Knowles ED29689 Impulse Response.png


Tin Audio T3:
Tin Audio T3 Impulse Response.png


1964 Ears V3 universal:
1964 Ears V3 Universal Impulse Response.png


Moondrop Crescent:
Moondrop Crescent Impulse Response.png



Sorry OOT. Probably need to make new thread to discuss technical measurement of In-Ear Monitors. I guess I stop here for technical discussion.
 

JohnYang1997

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So far for ER4SR, ER4XR, and my ER2XR, I use the stock 3 flanges ear tips that comes with it. Fit just fine for me.
Well this is what bothers my mind, that I cannot communicate that 'dryness' aspect when talking about sound quality. So far I suspect short and long decay, or odd harmonics. But I have no way to prove it or measure it. I just want to know I heard from all these IEMs that I have and communicate it as clear as possible when people ask about sound quality. But it seems the language of sound is not that universal after all :D

I tried to observe the Impulse Response of my measurement just to see it makes any sense. For example, here are 4 IR measurement of the following IEMs:

DIY Knowles ED29689 (BA driver used in ER4S & ER4P) - 1 BA IEM: It sounds dry to me.
Tin Audio T3 - Hybrid IEM: Also sounds dry to me
1964 Ears V3 universal (old discontinued model) - 3 BA IEM: Sounds fine to me
Moondrop Crescent - Dynamic driver: Definitely not dry sounding

I observe the T30 value of the IR measurement in REW:
DIY Knowles ED29689: 0.027 s
Tin Audio T3: 0.019 s
1964 Ears V3 universal: 0.053 s
Moondrop Crescent: 0.067 s

It is too early to make any conclusion, but from 4 IEMs above, IEM with the shorter impulse response sound dry to me.

DIY Knowles ED29689:
View attachment 56301

Tin Audio T3:
View attachment 56303

1964 Ears V3 universal:
View attachment 56300

Moondrop Crescent:
View attachment 56302


Sorry OOT. Probably need to make new thread to discuss technical measurement of In-Ear Monitors. I guess I stop here for technical discussion.
Ok. Simple. Use the large transparent tip. Maybe get the large grey one that comes with er4s/er4p. If it's too large, get the dual flange mod which cut around the largest flange and that allows you to do deep insertion. Yes this is what you need.
The sound with small tri-flange is grainy and lacks extension. Try the large tip it sounds more organic, smoother, better extended. And better yet the grey tri flange, less edgy sounding more airy and soft sounding than the transparent one. But maybe you would prefer the transparent one that's good also!
 

JohnYang1997

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If you still can't stand the sound or fit. Get the comply tsx100 small size/medium if your ear canals are large. Still deep insert it the sound will be very different but may suit your liking.
 

vert

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I have MH755, 2 units, fun enjoyable sound but a bit too bassy and the midrange a bit muffled for my preference, just a bit. I think it is ok for casual listening. But I hate the short cable.
Though I have minimal soldering skills, changing the cable was very easy. I've never owned or tried IEMs worth more than $120, but those little Sonys definitely are the best I've had.
 

Asylum Seeker

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...
I observe the T30 value of the IR measurement in REW:
DIY Knowles ED29689: 0.027 s
Tin Audio T3: 0.019 s
1964 Ears V3 universal: 0.053 s
Moondrop Crescent: 0.067 s

....
Can the human psycho-acoustic apparatus resolve the difference between 0.019s and 0.067s--the two extreme points in your measurements-- while there's a whole lot happening elsewhere in the music signal?

'Dryness' probably resides in the FR and distorsion realms.
 
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Fregly

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I am finding the Er2se more relaxed and yet more detailed than the Er4sr. If I am really hearing what I am hearing, could this be attributed to the lower distortion of the E2? I hear little sounds deep in the mix of music I did not notice with the E4, and I can't imagine this coming from minor squigles of difference in the frequency graphs. I also notice a shift in the soundstage presention, and do not understand the cause when both measure so similarly overall.
 

Earfonia

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Though I have minimal soldering skills, changing the cable was very easy. I've never owned or tried IEMs worth more than $120, but those little Sonys definitely are the best I've had.

I do like the Sony MH755 especially for some bright mix recordings. And yes, the cable can be replaced. Some even put MMCX connector on the shell. I'm just lazy :p I know no excuse for it.

Can the human psycho-acoustic apparatus resolve the difference between 0.019s and 0.067s--the two extreme points in your measurements-- while there's a whole lot happening elsewhere in the music signal?

'Dryness' probably resides in the FR and distorsion realms.

I have no idea. I just musing around with measurement to observe what I could make sense from them. Too early to tell anything from it. I have to observe more before making any conclusion.

I guess you also have experienced full BA IEM like 1-3 drivers BA IEM, compared to the dynamic driver right? Besides the FR, there is something else that makes those 2 technologies sound different. I just assumed the smaller and lighter membrane of BA driver would stop faster after transient, while the heavier membrane of dynamic driver will stop slower. That's why I was observing impulse response.
 

Earfonia

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Back to topic, today I just bought the TFZ TxBEAR X MONICA from AliExpress sale that will last for another 2 days.
I've tried the demo unit before in 2 occasions. Really like it, and so far the best TFZ I've heard. Here is the link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000301009974.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.64b54c4deJr6Fv

That shop gives discount and coupon. After all discount it is $ 80.91

I bought it cheaper by using extra coins etc... ended up $70.73
Balanced tonality with good clarity and transparency. I really like the detail and transparency of it and the life-like dynamic coming from the dynamic driver. I have the AK T8iE Mk2 single dynamic driver IEM. Monica doesn't sound the same as the AK T8iE Mk2, but technicality wise, like resolution, dynamic, etc, I would say Monica competes well with AK T8iE Mk2 that cost about 10 times of it. So for sub $100, I highly recommend TFZ Monica.
 

Blujackaal

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I guess you also have experienced full BA IEM like 1-3 drivers BA IEM, compared to the dynamic driver right? Besides the FR, there is something else that makes those 2 technologies sound different. I just assumed the smaller and lighter membrane of BA driver would stop faster after transient, while the heavier membrane of dynamic driver will stop slower. That's why I was observing impulse response.

BA drivers seem to share the very fast decay & transient performance as planar/Estat. Could be because of using a reed pulling the diaphragm better despite bit higher THD?, There diaphragms are stiff metal foil vs the looser plastic of dynamic. Also BA's were made to be small but the many 1 BA set ups are 5 ~ 6mm so i doubt it the small size, Since the ER4PT driver is pretty big.

I've always like how tight/effortless & the clarity/res are on BA headphones which i don't get with dynamic stuff.
 

Earfonia

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BA drivers seem to share the very fast decay & transient performance as planar/Estat. Could be because of using a reed pulling the diaphragm better despite bit higher THD?, There diaphragms are stiff metal foil vs the looser plastic of dynamic. Also BA's were made to be small but the many 1 BA set ups are 5 ~ 6mm so i doubt it the small size, Since the ER4PT driver is pretty big.

I've always like how tight/effortless & the clarity/res are on BA headphones which i don't get with dynamic stuff.

Yea, that's why I like hybrid, to get the bass oomph from the dynamic driver, and higher perceived resolution and detail from the BA driver for the mids and treble. But dynamic drivers are improving as well, and the speed, detail and resolution of dynamic driver are also getting better. That's why I bought the TFZ Monica, I like the speed, clarity, and dynamic of it.
 

Asylum Seeker

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Hybrid, the best of both worlds - KC2, T3, OH1
 
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