But there aren't different targets for speakers. There are only untrained ears.
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Objectivist friendly and wallet friendly IEM?
- Thread starter typericey
- Start date
That I agree completely
Asylum Seeker
Senior Member
Chi-fi is where value is these days. I'd look into getting three to four different, cheap Chinese IEMs under USD50, and auditioning them yourself to find the one(s) you like. Start with the following:
- Tin T2
- BLON BL03
- KZ ZS10PRO
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BillG
Major Contributor
I like what I'm experiencing with KZ. I actually listening on the KZ ZSA right now, and the ZS6 is being delivered to me very soon...
OP
typericey
Senior Member
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- May 28, 2018
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- Thread Starter
- #46
I dipped my toes on the sea of chi-fi IEMs and ended up getting a KZ ZS10 Pro. Completely forgot about the 1More Triple Drivers. Not sure if the KZ is "objectivist" friendly but it's indeed wallet friendly and I like what I hear. Amazing how so much "fidelity" can be had for so little $. Upgraded the tips with Spinfit and new cables on the way (they're not for improving sound quality, I just feel the stock cables quality is crap). Juice comes from the Hidizs S8 that Amir had found to measure well.
*Obviously, I'm a noob in the head fi realm. Been mostly a speakers guy.
*Obviously, I'm a noob in the head fi realm. Been mostly a speakers guy.
BillG
Major Contributor
This site has rather comprehensive, mostly objective reviews of numerous Chinese IEMs, and an has entire section devoted to KZ:
https://www.thephonograph.net/reviews/kz-headphones-earphones-reviews/
https://www.thephonograph.net/reviews/kz-headphones-earphones-reviews/
BillG
Major Contributor
By the way, here's the recommended frequency response curve (green) to look for with IEMs according to Harman research:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
D
Deleted member 12179
Guest
Darko has to pay the rent, just like everybody else. Thing is that Darko's way of earning money is reviewing audio gear, so guess what; he does not review cheap stuff, because cheap stuff doesn't spend money on advertising or on paying reviewers. Same with professional cycling journalists and bike parts, same with video game reviewer and the list is endless. I love darko videos and what not, but I don't trust the guy when price/performance is related. He complaints about chi-fi stuff, sending you to an article from The Verge talking shit about chi-fi, because, guess what? at The Verge they pay the rent the same way, soy they have to talk shit about chinese stuff, because otherwise the other big boys who spend money on payed articles and reviews would stop paying their rents...
So, my suggestion would be the Blon BL-03 as a 30$ starting point, but for sure there are better options with your higher budget. I would not buy anything campfire or anything western with that money, it will be overpriced in comparison. Maybe there are better options now for a tiny dac better than audioquest dragonfly. I think that's overpriced now too.
D
Deleted member 12179
Guest
Interesting, why the V shape? lowered mids do actually sound flat if coming from IEM's?
Any iem that tuned to this will literally sound like shit.
Friends. Just don't look any iems other than moondrop and etymotic. Other iems are literally jokes.
BillG
Major Contributor
Harman's extensive research versus some random guy on the internet with an opinion? Yeah, I know who I'm sticking with, and it isn't the latter...
1 I'm not a random guy.Harman's extensive research versus some random guy on the internet with an opinion? Yeah, I know who I'm sticking with, and it isn't the latter...
2 Have you read the papers?
3 Are you a trained listener or have you performed similar tests?
IEMs sit in the ear canal and bypass the outer part of the ear (pinna). So the Harman IE target compensates for both listening preference and the effect that the pinna would normally have on frequency response (see pinna notch)
I think he meant the IE ref to OE.
BillG
Major Contributor
Quite frankly, I don't care who you are. However, coming at me with that sort of blunt reply to my initial post will get you absolutely no where, because there's no way in hell I'd consider your opinion after that. And now we're done, as I'll never see a posts from you again...
ZolaIII
Major Contributor
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- Jul 28, 2019
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I have Sony HF755 which is by it's own closest to that curve and it sounds as you described (but not only thanks to the curve).
People taking Harman Target as god's message is hilarious. Their direction is correct but there are flaws.
There are things you need to know about Harman Target.
1, Harman Target does not represent flat speakers in a treated room. It's not the goal and only the first step that's remotely related to the idea. And it's eq'd flat in room not flat then put in a treated room. The approach is simply different. It only uses flat in room as a starting point then use full subjective approach to seek the preferred response.
2, The flat in room response is questionable. It is too smooth to be a in room response even after eq. The high frequency response does not lie in between diffuse field response and free field response. The high frequency roll off is very questionable and led to all the errors we see later.
3, Selection of 200hz as bass to mid transition frequency is arbitrary/artificial. There's no support from any documentation that a bass compensation should happen at that frequency. Thus causing the difficulty in implementing in real headphones later on. It also caused the insane uplift in that region for the IE target. Because you don't get a increase at 300-500hz in tuning this way.
4, The choice of having everything after 2khz to be tuned up and down the same level is also arbitrary and artificial. This along with the questioned flat in room response caused too much 3-6khz and too much high frequency extension roll off after 10khz.
5, The other targets that were compared to are simply unlistenable which are the raw diffuse field response (like er4b) and raw free field response (not as bright but less preferred due to lack of bass boost). Harman target basically is taking the advantage of having a boosted bass and choosing the weak opponent to compare. Of course people are choosing the harman target. Even then not all people prefer Harman Target. It only wins by roughly 20%. Simply ignored all other approaches from Goldenears, Etymotic research etc.
Yes it is a big shift for us, which is good. It kick-started the wave of wanting to match to a target. Remember Harman tweaked the response a few times and their own products are far and away from matching the target. So you should get the idea of how non-accurate the target was and is going to be. And yes anything without the 3k hump is going to sound very bad. But the IE Harman target? Is it really better. It's equally bad. There are more to talk about the measurement equipments. I have used B&k 4128c, Gras ra0045 and other couplers.
There are things you need to know about Harman Target.
1, Harman Target does not represent flat speakers in a treated room. It's not the goal and only the first step that's remotely related to the idea. And it's eq'd flat in room not flat then put in a treated room. The approach is simply different. It only uses flat in room as a starting point then use full subjective approach to seek the preferred response.
2, The flat in room response is questionable. It is too smooth to be a in room response even after eq. The high frequency response does not lie in between diffuse field response and free field response. The high frequency roll off is very questionable and led to all the errors we see later.
3, Selection of 200hz as bass to mid transition frequency is arbitrary/artificial. There's no support from any documentation that a bass compensation should happen at that frequency. Thus causing the difficulty in implementing in real headphones later on. It also caused the insane uplift in that region for the IE target. Because you don't get a increase at 300-500hz in tuning this way.
4, The choice of having everything after 2khz to be tuned up and down the same level is also arbitrary and artificial. This along with the questioned flat in room response caused too much 3-6khz and too much high frequency extension roll off after 10khz.
5, The other targets that were compared to are simply unlistenable which are the raw diffuse field response (like er4b) and raw free field response (not as bright but less preferred due to lack of bass boost). Harman target basically is taking the advantage of having a boosted bass and choosing the weak opponent to compare. Of course people are choosing the harman target. Even then not all people prefer Harman Target. It only wins by roughly 20%. Simply ignored all other approaches from Goldenears, Etymotic research etc.
Yes it is a big shift for us, which is good. It kick-started the wave of wanting to match to a target. Remember Harman tweaked the response a few times and their own products are far and away from matching the target. So you should get the idea of how non-accurate the target was and is going to be. And yes anything without the 3k hump is going to sound very bad. But the IE Harman target? Is it really better. It's equally bad. There are more to talk about the measurement equipments. I have used B&k 4128c, Gras ra0045 and other couplers.
755 is pretty good on its own and for the price you can't argue. It is closer to the OE target which is acceptable. I was referring to the IE target which is simply WTF. It's still much better than majority of iems on the market.
The downsides of 755 are
1 too much bass
2 too much mid bass blunt
3 a bit of 7khz peak due to ear canal resonance
4 not exactly match to targets
Sony MH1 is better overall and if modded(to reduce bass) it's one of the best sounding iem on earth. Very smooth and accurate.