Objectivist friendly and wallet friendly IEM?

[Aperiodic]

This is the answer to this thread:

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review​

I bought these based on the review, partly to get a 'feel' for the Harman curve since they follow it so closely. They are great value. I like them and am going to keep them. But they are not neutral (which is how I interpreted 'objectivist-friendly' in the thread title. I listen to a lot of acoustic music and the coloration is quite noticeable at times, especially if the bass is mic'd close which it often is on studio recordings where the bassist is the leader on the date. Acoustic bass doesn't sound like that. I have the same 'beef' with my Periodic Be v3. I don't blame the designers; most people want 'mo' bass', so they provide it. But more isn't always better. I have the already-mentioned Ety 2SE's which provide great neutrality at a great price but the dynamics from those very small drivers don't have the same impact as the larger ones in the Periodics and the Truthears, and sometimes I think they're not as 'clean'. That signature with the punch from larger drivers would be an endgame point for me.

Since the Ety's prove 'Pretty Neutral without EQ' is possible, I don't want to have to rely on EQ to remove colorations (especially as so much of my listening these days is on my phone).

 

[markanini]

I listen to a lot of acoustic music and the coloration is quite noticeable at times, especially if the bass is mic'd close which it often is on studio recordings where the bassist is the leader on the date. Acoustic bass doesn't sound like that.

Blame it on the mixing engineer and the lack of incentive for producing acoustic releases that sound the way it did in the room. It's not the IEMs job to compensate for that, that's just weird.

 

[Aperiodic]

To repeat, I am intimately familiar with the 'real'sound of an acoustic bass from numerous recordings on numerous audio systems in numerous environments, and in live settings ranging from you-name-it to six feet away from me in a bass player's practice room.

The Harman curve empasizes bass. Sorry, but it does. Wonder why bass sounds convincing on so many other systems I hear (both speaker and headphone) but 'emphasized' on a system that "hugs the Harman curve like a wet towel"? Could it be that Harman- which owns half the audio brands most people can name- wants to sell audio gear that most people will 'prefer' (remember, Harman calls them "preference scores") and therefore buy? Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like the presentation, but on much material it's like, Whoaaaa... People also 'like' SET tube amps that have demonstrably audible distortion levels. Doesn't make them right.

Nowhere did I say that the IEM should 'compensate' for some assumed fault in the recording. I did say that I didn't want to have to rely on EQ to remove colorations. Ideally, I'd prefer there be none. BUT IMHO, nor should it 'warm up' everything that passes through it. Look at how much discussion of EQ there is in almost every speaker or headphone thread here. The job of every device and human operator along the way should be to capture and pass along the original sound, adding or removing nothing. Nothing does that perfectly yet, obviously. It's an impossible job, given imperfect (and wildly differing) production tools, imperfect operators, and imperfect playback tools, especially transducers. My problem is, presenting an accurate-as-possible representation of the input doesn't seem to be the goal.

 

[Chromatischism]

I bought these based on the review, partly to get a 'feel' for the Harman curve since they follow it so closely. They are great value. I like them and am going to keep them. But they are not neutral (which is how I interpreted 'objectivist-friendly' in the thread title. I listen to a lot of acoustic music and the coloration is quite noticeable at times, especially if the bass is mic'd close which it often is on studio recordings where the bassist is the leader on the date. Acoustic bass doesn't sound like that. I have the same 'beef' with my Periodic Be v3. I don't blame the designers; most people want 'mo' bass', so they provide it. But more isn't always better. I have the already-mentioned Ety 2SE's which provide great neutrality at a great price but the dynamics from those very small drivers don't have the same impact as the larger ones in the Periodics and the Truthears, and sometimes I think they're not as 'clean'. That signature with the punch from larger drivers would be an endgame point for me.

Since the Ety's prove 'Pretty Neutral without EQ' is possible, I don't want to have to rely on EQ to remove colorations (especially as so much of my listening these days is on my phone).

I have the same observations. If that's really Harman, it's bright. It doesn't sound anything like my neutral speakers.

You may have already seen it, but if not, I just completed my tweak-o-thon on the Zero's. If you're on an iPhone I'm not sure what to use, but if Android, here is my Wavelet graphic EQ file. I'm also pasting the raw filters as well for any 10-band PEQ. I use my phone with these mostly. I may also input these filters to Equalizer APO in case I want to plug them into the PC.

It fixes the bass and upper midrange problems and makes them much more neutral and impactful.

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 2.4 dB Q 2.200
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain -3.6 dB Q 0.800
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 100 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 175 Hz Gain 1.8 dB Q 1.800
Filter 5: OFF PK Fc 1100 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 2.000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2750 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 1.000
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -5.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain -4.2 dB Q 5.000

 

[SuicideSquid]

To repeat, I am intimately familiar with the 'real'sound of an acoustic bass from numerous recordings on numerous audio systems in numerous environments, and in live settings ranging from you-name-it to six feet away from me in a bass player's practice room.

The Harman curve empasizes bass. Sorry, but it does. Wonder why bass sounds convincing on so many other systems I hear (both speaker and headphone) but 'emphasized' on a system that "hugs the Harman curve like a wet towel"? Could it be that Harman- which owns half the audio brands most people can name- wants to sell audio gear that most people will 'prefer' (remember, Harman calls them "preference scores") and therefore buy? Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like the presentation, but on much material it's like, Whoaaaa... People also 'like' SET tube amps that have demonstrably audible distortion levels. Doesn't make them right.

Nowhere did I say that the IEM should 'compensate' for some assumed fault in the recording. I did say that I didn't want to have to rely on EQ to remove colorations. Ideally, I'd prefer there be none. BUT IMHO, nor should it 'warm up' everything that passes through it. Look at how much discussion of EQ there is in almost every speaker or headphone thread here. The job of every device and human operator along the way should be to capture and pass along the original sound, adding or removing nothing. Nothing does that perfectly yet, obviously. It's an impossible job, given imperfect (and wildly differing) production tools, imperfect operators, and imperfect playback tools, especially transducers. My problem is, presenting an accurate-as-possible representation of the input doesn't seem to be the goal.

Remember that especially for IEMs, the type of tip you're using, how well it's sealing to your ear, and the insertion depth will all impact perceived bass and brightness. It's likely that the Harmon curve tracks to 'neutral' and it's merely the variances in your own physiology and use that are resulting in these differences.

I find my Truthears a bit bright and bassy as well. But they're very close to neutral, and pulling the treble back just 2dB around 4kHz, and rolling the bass off slightly below 50Hz, makes them sound completely flat to me.

 

[Chromatischism]

I find my Truthears a bit bright and bassy as well. But they're very close to neutral, and pulling the treble back just 2dB around 4kHz, and rolling the bass off slightly below 50Hz, makes them sound completely flat to me.

The bass is already rolled off so I'm not sure why you would do that. You actually want to change the shape of the bass to this. It sounds similar to speakers or subs in a room. The stock rounded bass with boost up to 150 Hz is not right IMO.

 

[Aperiodic]

If you're on an iPhone I'm not sure what to use

I am. There are 3rd party players that support EQ on local files but not streaming. Apparently Android allows the user 'under the hood' for audio more but switching isn't in any foreseeable future of mine. I will save your recommendations to try for computer use though, thanks.

To repeat. the Zero does a lot right for a very low bottom line. Worth a little seasoning to taste.

 

[Chromatischism]

For the longest time something like this (system-wide EQ...well, mostly) wasn't possible. This program is a marvel and has really changed the game for me.

But I agree, the hardware is solid so they are easily worth $50 (or more). If you can fine-tune them to your liking they can sound top-tier.

By the way, I also have PA IEM's, the Mg. They were my first.

 

[Aperiodic]

UX update: Getting more familiar with more use, and have identified the following quizzes:

• The cable is very quiet from a microphonic perspective (good) but IME is prone to tangling (Not so good).
• The tips have gotten loose on the nozzles and have started staying in my ear when I take the headphones off, and it's a PITA to dig them out. Don't know why, as they have stayed on since initial tip trying-outs no stretching from on-and-off. Low cost of entry showing itself here?

Don't know what if anything can be done about the 1st point but the second can be solved simply by throwing $12 at the problem and ordering a pair of SpinFit CP155. as mentioned early on. This of course raises the cost of this experiment by 25% or so but it's still a cheap ride.

 

[Soria Moria]

Moondrop Variations.

 

[alekksander]

For critical listening: ER2SE or ER3XR

just my two cents about etys: not so long ago i bought myself ER3SE… this are very detailed – i really enjoy this aspect, but after 45 minutes i'm getting exhausted… 2.5khz region is just piercing my eardrums, while low and top edge of the spectrum is missing. interestingly this is the only pair of iem i own that has clearly noticeable 2.5-3.0 peak when testing swipe tone. for me personally this is far from being neutral (perhaps something about my ear canal?) XR however appear as 1.5db lowered in that "too hot" arena. i wish i can test them simultaneously.

edit: aiming for red filters, but it's not possible to get them separately… shame on You lucidaudio.