Obi-Wan Kenobi

[JSmith]

This is how I left after seeing this trailer... stop, hammer time;

JSmith

 

[JJB70]

Star Wars was basically WW2 re-imagined in space in terms of the action sequences, and I think it worked superbly in the first trilogy and after a shaky start with the first prequel which was awful the idea worked well in episodes 2 & 3. However there are aspects to it all which have become silly to the point of breaking the illusion for me, such as:

• The scale is silly, because earthbound naval warfare generally takes place over areas of hundreds of square miles Lucas basically transposed a similar idea of scale to space with distances across solar systems, between planets and moons etc seemingly being the equivalent of a footstep. Admittedly this isn't unique to SW, but the Expanse does it so much better;
• After years of losing big ships and battle stations to star fighter attack the Imperials still haven't figured out that capital ships need point defence systems to defend against fighter attack;
• The weapons and technology look backwards compared to earthbound technology you can see out of the window if you live near a naval or air base;
• Being familiar with the various tools used to assess failure modes and faults, it's just silly to think the baddies keep designing their wonder weapons with fundamental weaknesses which allow the goodies to blow them to bits. For example the Sith star destroyers, planet killing star destroyers, thousands of them! Don't worry chaps, just land a shot on the big cannon and the whole thing blows up;
• The Imperials and their offspring are just so inept, look chaps we've built this wonder fleet of planet killing star destroyers, just park them all over there where they are vulnerable to attack and can't manoeuvre;
• Who had the brainwave of having a single navigation aid for the Sith planet, break that and the Sith are screwed. And on this one, why did Kylo Ren need a magical Sith wayfinder to find his way when an hour later apparently every ship in the Galaxy could fly there easily? And don't get me started on the stupid dagger that identified where to look on the wrecked Death Star;
• Why was it a lovely day on Endor and then suddenly the sea was a raging storm? And does anyone think enormous bits of old space station can fall out of the sky and seemingly have no impact on the planetary eco-system?;
• Storm troopers are great, they just can't shoot straight;
• The bit with Star Wars mini-me B-17 flying fortresses flying over battleships in formation to drop bombs on them was absurd;
• Why do they need super size Dreadnoughts to pound planetary targets when a small tactical nuke made 50 years ago would be more effective?
• Why have they never developed drone torpedo ships to execute the 'holdo manoeuvre' against big targets like Death Stars etc?

I could go on but I think it's enough. I thought maybe it was just me, but my two kids were pointing out some of the same holes, any sci-fi breaks down if you think about it too much, but good sci-fi allows us to forget reality and immerse ourselves in an alternate universe. The older Star Wars movies pulled it off but the sequels were just awful. The reason I loved Rogue One so much was partly because the Imperials were finally credible and scary rather than being just a joke. I admit, maybe part of it is that having worked in warship design I am especially sensitive to noticing so of these things, but I can still watch the originals and prequels and love them, Rogue One (which suffered from some of the issues), older Star Trek etc.

 

[Mart68]

Star Wars was basically WW2 re-imagined in space in terms of the action sequences, and I think it worked superbly in the first trilogy and after a shaky start with the first prequel which was awful the idea worked well in episodes 2 & 3. However there are aspects to it all which have become silly to the point of breaking the illusion for me, such as:

Have you ever noticed that the attack on the Death Star is almost an exact rip-off of 'The Dambusters'?

You have to drop your bomb in exactly the right spot, the targeting scanner replicates having to align the two searchlight beams. Even some of the dialogue is word for word 'How many guns do you count?' etc

That was what made it great though, ripping off tropes from old war films and dropping them into a fantasy future/ past. Familiar but also totally new. And it looked fantastic. The later films with the CGI, not so much., still looks like cartoon to me, they insist on over-reaching with the effects.

As regards the bumbling Imperials they make a lot of the same mistakes the Japanese made with their carriers in WW2, they failed to adapt as well, so there is sort of a precedent. The Imperial fleet officers don't wear WW2 period Japanese uniforms for no reason.

 

[antcollinet]

What do you expect from passionate fans who's favorite characters and sagas have been destroyed for corporate virtue signaling?

Destroyed? Really? This is a fantasy franchise. It’s not real life FFS.

 

[Bob from Florida]

• Why was it a lovely day on Endor and then suddenly the sea was a raging storm?

The raging sea actually makes sense to me. Endor was a moon and the tidal effects would be massive. The best sci fi example that comes to mind are the "floating rocks" in Avatar. Come to think of it, Avatar was cool and original.

 

[FrantzM]

Star Wars was basically WW2 re-imagined in space in terms of the action sequences, and I think it worked superbly in the first trilogy and after a shaky start with the first prequel which was awful the idea worked well in episodes 2 & 3. However there are aspects to it all which have become silly to the point of breaking the illusion for me, such as:

• The scale is silly, because earthbound naval warfare generally takes place over areas of hundreds of square miles Lucas basically transposed a similar idea of scale to space with distances across solar systems, between planets and moons etc seemingly being the equivalent of a footstep. Admittedly this isn't unique to SW, but the Expanse does it so much better;
• After years of losing big ships and battle stations to star fighter attack the Imperials still haven't figured out that capital ships need point defence systems to defend against fighter attack;
• The weapons and technology look backwards compared to earthbound technology you can see out of the window if you live near a naval or air base;
• Being familiar with the various tools used to assess failure modes and faults, it's just silly to think the baddies keep designing their wonder weapons with fundamental weaknesses which allow the goodies to blow them to bits. For example the Sith star destroyers, planet killing star destroyers, thousands of them! Don't worry chaps, just land a shot on the big cannon and the whole thing blows up;
• The Imperials and their offspring are just so inept, look chaps we've built this wonder fleet of planet killing star destroyers, just park them all over there where they are vulnerable to attack and can't manoeuvre;
• Who had the brainwave of having a single navigation aid for the Sith planet, break that and the Sith are screwed. And on this one, why did Kylo Ren need a magical Sith wayfinder to find his way when an hour later apparently every ship in the Galaxy could fly there easily? And don't get me started on the stupid dagger that identified where to look on the wrecked Death Star;
• Why was it a lovely day on Endor and then suddenly the sea was a raging storm? And does anyone think enormous bits of old space station can fall out of the sky and seemingly have no impact on the planetary eco-system?;
• Storm troopers are great, they just can't shoot straight;
• The bit with Star Wars mini-me B-17 flying fortresses flying over battleships in formation to drop bombs on them was absurd;
• Why do they need super size Dreadnoughts to pound planetary targets when a small tactical nuke made 50 years ago would be more effective?
• Why have they never developed drone torpedo ships to execute the 'holdo manoeuvre' against big targets like Death Stars etc?

I could go on but I think it's enough. I thought maybe it was just me, but my two kids were pointing out some of the same holes, any sci-fi breaks down if you think about it too much, but good sci-fi allows us to forget reality and immerse ourselves in an alternate universe. The older Star Wars movies pulled it off but the sequels were just awful. The reason I loved Rogue One so much was partly because the Imperials were finally credible and scary rather than being just a joke. I admit, maybe part of it is that having worked in warship design I am especially sensitive to noticing so of these things, but I can still watch the originals and prequels and love them, Rogue One (which suffered from some of the issues), older Star Trek etc.

Thanks for this post...Can I add a few:
Starwars also goes deep into the Westerns movies, especially the Spaghetti Western, when the Italians studio were churning westerns. Brooding heroes, fast pistol draws, Bars/Saloon where all business is conducted...Bad guys to be killed by the brooding hero in the bar/saloon. etc...
The "armor" of the startroopers. What's its use if any shot kills them even that from smallish handguns.
To repeat our point about them not being able to shoot straight.. Seriously
The video of some holographic communications: In 2022 we have crystal clear Zoom, FaceTime, Skype, etc video calls, later we have those fuzzy holograms?

I am a big scifi fan. I can't wach most of those things coming from the MCU and Star Wars. Disney + is now available in Haiti. But Man... Big catalog but the MCU and STarwars are for the most part really bad..

Some directors have said it about the MCU destroying movie making... I believe so.
They're dumbing Storytelling to a number of bankable (for a while I hope) tropes and formulaic plots.

Peace

 

[JSmith]

The video of some holographic communications: In 2022 we have crystal clear Zoom, FaceTime, Skype, etc video calls, later we have those fuzzy holograms?

Erm you seem to be forgetting this is in a galaxy far far away, another time... Earth is not in Star Wars, the origin of "people" in SW is unknown and there are no "humans".

To repeat our point about them not being able to shoot straight.. Seriously

Plenty of entities get hit that aren't main characters associated with the force... don't forget the "will of the force" as well. The stories follow those strong with the force.

Anyway... all that said, SW is not meant to be taken so seriously, it's mean to be fun entertainment.


JSmith

 

[vert]

A consumate master of the disciplines of the mind and the body, a Jedi, can't be a mouth breather, it's simply not credible. We ended our Disney subscription, one year was enough. The Mandalorian was incredible, but then there was the Gina Carasso incident, which clashed with my values - and would have had she been of a different political persuasion.

 

[FrantzM]

Erm you seem to be forgetting this is in a galaxy far far away, another time... Earth is not in Star Wars, the origin of "people" in SW is unknown and there are no "humans".

Plenty of entities get hit that aren't main characters associated with the force... don't forget the "will of the force" as well. The stories follow those strong with the force.

Anyway... all that said, SW is not meant to be taken so seriously, it's mean to be fun entertainment.


JSmith

So they have discovered (and use trivially) faster than light travel but can't have decent video ?
Fun, yes, dumbed down? No!

 

[JJB70]

The raging sea actually makes sense to me. Endor was a moon and the tidal effects would be massive. The best sci fi example that comes to mind are the "floating rocks" in Avatar. Come to think of it, Avatar was cool and original.

Waves are primarily the result of wind, if it is a raging storm with big waves then it will normally be a very blustery day in coastal land areas too

 

[JSmith]

So they have discovered (and use trivially) faster than light travel but can't have decent video ?

6 Ways Holograms Play an Important Role in Star Wars Storytelling | StarWars.com

Whether kicking off a hero's journey, introducing a vile villain, or providing a bit of entertainment, holograms are a hallmark of the Star Wars saga.

www.starwars.com

Hologram

Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you're my only hope." [static] "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you're my only hope.Leia Organa, in her message to Obi-Wan Kenobi A hologram was a three-dimensional visual projection of an object or data, most commonly including people, maps, technical plans, or other...

starwars.fandom.com

Hologram/Legends

A hologram was a three-dimensional projection of a person or object, normally used in communication or entertainment. Holograms were used mostly in telecommunications as an alternative to screens. A holocamera of any recorder or receiver would acquire the dimensions, form and movements of an...

starwars.fandom.com

Why are most holograms blue in Star Wars?

Throughout the Star Wars saga, no matter the era, no matter who's broadcasting, blue holograms are exceedingly common. Additionally, Snoke's hologram occasionally flashes blue. However, multi- an...

scifi.stackexchange.com

... I like the holograms.


JSmith

 

[Bob from Florida]

Waves are primarily the result of wind, if it is a raging storm with big waves then it will normally be a very blustery day in coastal land areas too

You mean this kind of blustery day?

 

[andrewjohn007]

Destroyed? Really? This is a fantasy franchise. It’s not real life FFS.

My apologies if the hyperbole was a little too graphic for you and yours. I'll try and dial it down for our tender folk.

More precisely it's a science fiction franchise, which is a form of performing arts. Kind of like the music you listen to on your hi-fi... It's not real life FFS.

 

[antcollinet]

My apologies if the hyperbole was a little too graphic for you and yours. I'll try and dial it down for our tender folk.

More precisely it's a science fiction franchise, which is a form of performing arts. Kind of like the music you listen to on your hi-fi... It's not real life FFS.

Ooh - we could debate if it is science fiction, or fantasy. IMO, SF needs to be a little harder on the science side. SW is more sort of space opera.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan, and am old enough to have been one for as long as it is possible to be one. However, for me, story is everything: I'm not heavily invested in individual characters or needing plotlines to be 100% consistent accross stories.

 

[Mart68]

my favourite character was always Han Solo and the first thing Disney did was kill him. Lame
And it turns out he got married to Princess Leia. Lame.
And they had a son who turned out to be a baddie. Lame.

I went to the cinema to see that too. Won't make that mistake again.

Rogue One got a pass from me though. Scraped through.

 

[Sal1950]

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan, and am old enough to have been one for as long as it is possible to be one. However, for me, story is everything: I'm not heavily invested in individual characters or needing plotlines to be 100% consistent accross stories.

I'm equally about the newest tech on film/digital, that's where the sci-fi genre should shine.
I always go to the local IMAX to see these types of films and enjoy seeing both the latest in CGI and sound.
Then when it's available on bluray or 4k disc, I can compare how well my home system stands up,
Sometimes it's even better.

I went to the cinema to see that too. Won't make that mistake again.

That will be your loss, not mine.
I would never miss a SW or ST film at theater if I can help it.

 

[ROOSKIE]

This looks like pure dope.
Obi Wan is my favorite character.
I will actually pay for Disney+ while this runs. Done.

There is something really thrilling about a fresh new idea in Sci-Fi. Star Trek was one. Original Star Wars was another. And Matrix. We need more innovative programming like that. Those are more risky so studios rather make sequels but I hope that changes.

Along with Star Trek, Star Wars, Matrix I found the following to be pretty innovative as well. Hoping for more to come, love SciFi

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Interstellar
Inception
Alien (1&2)
E.T.
Terminator (1&2)
Blade Runner (1982)
Black to the Future (1-3)
Her
Jurassic Park (1)

"Cloud Atlas" as well, I love the interwoven realties and mystic karma woven into science fiction - plus the Carlos Castaneda reference seals the deal.

 

[Sal1950]

Blade Runner (1982)

I enjoy Blade Runner 2049. The BluRay has an excellent Atmos sound track.

 

[JSmith]

Premier is now the 27th of May instead of the 25th, however a double episode to kick it off, which will be great I think as it will feel like a short movie;

JSmith

 

[Deleted member 47224]

Star Wars really is more of science-fantasy story than science-fiction. The lore is built on many things that doesn't make sense in a futuristic world, not to mention the force, which is more like magic. These details already have been used to construct another world probably more because it was fun or awesome than anything else. This not how you do sci-fi in my opinion.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy such stories though, I just find them less appealing. I was a bigger fan younger, not so much nowadays after reading and seeing a whole lot of better sci-fi stories. I still enjoy the first six episodes (yes yes that include the first three despite bad overall acting...) and Rogue One, which is probably my favourite, but don't care much for everything else.