NY Times visits Ojas

[Cbdb2]

The guy has a vision and an aesthetic and is true to that vision and his aesthetic.

His asthetic is stolen from 50 years ago.

 

[Ste_S]

I don't hate that guy, he is not like Nordost or that PS guy or so. But it's overhyped fashion stuff leaning on shoulders of giants of the past., not a high engineered speaker. And that should be said.

They probally don't sound that bad, but 9K for such a system is way to much. If it was 3K or so i would not even mind (handbuild and so). But this will sell, don't worry. Many hipsters don't care and just want a cool looking speaker and have the money for it. And it's that market he targets, not the ASR crowd (and i'm sure he does not care about what is said here).

Again, missing the point. See my above post.

 

[Ste_S]

Boomers just seem content to let trad hi-fi die in niche, older men only, hi-fi shows

 

[Mr. Widget]

His asthetic is stolen from 50 years ago.

Inspiration is not the same as plagiarism... he is the first to discuss where the roots are for his designs and inspiration.

You can appreciate it or not. Personally I am glad to see a new generation excited about audio.
There are many paths to take. This is just one.

 

[MattHooper]

I missed this thread when it first popped up... I don't understand the vitriol.

The guy has a vision and an aesthetic and is true to that vision and his aesthetic. You can prefer a different approach for objective, subjective, or practical reasons. (size, cost, etc.) But why the hate and disparagement.

Devon landed on my radar at the SFMOMA show last month and I have been reading up on his work and watching the YouTube videos since. He is quite honest and transparent. He tells you where you can buy his parts if you want to recreate what he has done and honestly discusses his background and openly admits to his lack of deep technical knowledge. His designs are simple and work reasonably well. His aesthetic is appreciated by some and not by others which is the nature of aesthetics.

He recently released a new speaker that he and Roy Delgado of Klipsch co-developed and Klipsch is fabricating at their Hope Arkansas plant. It is based on the Heresy and is not for everyone, but certainly looks cool for those into the look and if someone likes the sound, the looks, and can afford it, what is the harm?

I am not his customer as I have the skills to make my own and address the technical issues as I see fit, but it makes me happy that there are people exploring these alternative paths and introducing people to audio that isn't another bluetooth box.

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Agreed.

I think it’s a cool aesthetic myself, and I’d love to hear one of his systems. It would be fun and interesting. Nothing he’s doing is taking away from my or anybody else’s system.

Unlike almost any other audiophile forums, this forum, essentially rates sound systems, especially speakers on a scale of “ good or bad,” disparaging the “bad.” Which is of course perfectly fine and reasonable approach.

I personally I can find it somewhat stultifying.
If a speaker isn’t designed along ASR’s “ best practises” or doesn’t “ measure right” (and for some if it is not active) then it is of little interest. “Just get a Neumman or Genelec and Revel..”

Anything less must be for dupes. Interested in older technology like Ojas is almost seen as a betrayal or con of some sort rather than just somebody having fun doing something different than what is typically offered these days.

This is why I still enjoy visiting other audio forums as well as reading some audio magazines like Stereophile. Despite requiring some navigation of BS, they are less dismissive of all the interesting designs that can be found in the Wild West of High End Audio, and so I’m likely to get more in-depth reports on such equipment.

 

[Koeitje]

Agreed.

I think it’s a cool aesthetic myself, and I’d love to hear one of his systems. It would be fun and interesting. Nothing he’s doing is taking away from my or anybody else’s system.

Unlike almost any other audiophile forums, this forum, essentially rates sound systems, especially speakers on a scale of “ good or bad,” disparaging the “bad.” Which is of course perfectly fine and reasonable approach.

I personally I can find it somewhat stultifying.
If a speaker isn’t designed along ASR’s “ best practises” or doesn’t “ measure right” (and for some if it is not active) then it is of little interest. “Just get a Neumman or Genelec and Revel..”

Anything less must be for dupes. Interested in older technology like Ojas is almost seen as a betrayal or con of some sort rather than just somebody having fun doing something different than what is typically offered these days.

This is why I still enjoy visiting other audio forums as well as reading some audio magazines like Stereophile. Despite requiring some navigation of BS, they are less dismissive of all the interesting designs that can be found in the Wild West of High End Audio, and so I’m likely to get more in-depth reports on such equipment.

You can design loudspeakers that look at certain way and still adhere to good design principles. See the Wharfedale Linton for example. Sure it could be better with a difference shape cabinet, but its clear effort was made to bring it up to a modern standard.

 

[MattHooper]

You can design loudspeakers that look at certain way and still adhere to good design principles. See the Wharfedale Linton for example. Sure it could be better with a difference shape cabinet, but its clear effort was made to bring it up to a modern standard.

Sure. But this fellow probably isn’t seeking that type of sound. He has no doubt heard plenty of “ better measuring speakers” - it would be hard not to come across some if you are an audiophile - but he is aiming for a particular type of presentation that he likes.
The type of Sonic presentation he has heard from those older speakers that don’t measure like a Revel or Genelec. If he wanted a Revel type sound, that would be the type of speaker he’d be building.

 

[Koeitje]

Sure. But this fellow probably isn’t seeking that type of sound. He has no doubt heard plenty of “ better measuring speakers” - it would be hard not to come across some if you are an audiophile - but he is aiming for a particular type of presentation that he likes.
The type of Sonic presentation he has heard from those older speakers that don’t measure like a Revel or Genelec. If he wanted a Revel type sound, that would be the type of speaker he’d be building.

Yes, sure. Not everyone is looking for high fidelity. Was just pointing out that a classic look doesn't mean it can't adhere to modern design principles.

 

[mhardy6647]

I missed this thread when it first popped up... I don't understand the vitriol.

The guy has a vision and an aesthetic and is true to that vision and his aesthetic. You can prefer a different approach for objective, subjective, or practical reasons. (size, cost, etc.) But why the hate and disparagement.

Devon landed on my radar at the SFMOMA show last month and I have been reading up on his work and watching the YouTube videos since. He is quite honest and transparent. He tells you where you can buy his parts if you want to recreate what he has done and honestly discusses his background and openly admits to his lack of deep technical knowledge. His designs are simple and work reasonably well. His aesthetic is appreciated by some and not by others which is the nature of aesthetics.

He recently released a new speaker that he and Roy Delgado of Klipsch co-developed and Klipsch is fabricating at their Hope Arkansas plant. It is based on the Heresy and is not for everyone, but certainly looks cool for those into the look and if someone likes the sound, the looks, and can afford it, what is the harm?

I am not his customer as I have the skills to make my own and address the technical issues as I see fit, but it makes me happy that there are people exploring these alternative paths and introducing people to audio that isn't another bluetooth box.

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It is the smartest thing Klipsch has done for a while.

 

[Cbdb2]

Inspiration is not the same as plagiarism... he is the first to discuss where the roots are for his designs and inspiration.

You can appreciate it or not. Personally I am glad to see a new generation excited about audio.
There are many paths to take. This is just one.

These new speakers are so close the what I posted I would call it plagiarism. Are you sure this new generation is excited about audio or just want to be cool. Like I said, this is about fashion not audio. And seeing a review in a fashion magazine seems to confirm that. Calling them art to multiply the cost is ridiculous and must make real artist cringe. Kind of reminds me of the documentary "Exit thru the Gift Shop" .

 

[MattHooper]

These new speakers are so close the what I posted I would call it plagiarism.

You really think that the two photos you posted of those speakers amount to plagiarism? My reaction is: you’ve got to be kidding.

You may as well accuse KEF of plagiarism because their reference line of speakers are tall, narrow box speakers with drivers just like a bazillion other such designs.

Are you sure this new generation is excited about audio or just want to be cool. Like I said, this is about fashion not audio

Audio has long been linked with fashion, insofar as plenty of audio components through the ages have marketed as fashionable designs.

But is Devon only interested in the fashion aspect? That certainly not the impression from his many interviews, outlining his inspirations and his experience building loudspeakers. He’s clearly inspired by certain types of audio design that create certain types of Sonic experiences that he likes.

Forgive me, but your remarks seem to have the character of “ old man yelling at cloud.”

 

[Cbdb2]

You really think that the two photos you posted of those speakers amount to plagiarism? My reaction is: you’ve got to be kidding.

You may as well accuse KEF of plagiarism because their reference line of speakers are tall, narrow box speakers with drivers just like a bazillion other such designs.

You've got to be kidding. We we were talking about aesthetics, the way they look, as in people think he's an artist. A bare horn on a box, not that many of those around these days. Almost identical to the Voice of the Theater. So yea the look, which is probably the most important thing to the hipster buying them is plagiarized. Who buys KEFs because they look cool?

 

[Waxx]

You really think that the two photos you posted of those speakers amount to plagiarism? My reaction is: you’ve got to be kidding.

You may as well accuse KEF of plagiarism because their reference line of speakers are tall, narrow box speakers with drivers just like a bazillion other such designs.



Audio has long been linked with fashion, insofar as plenty of audio components through the ages have marketed as fashionable designs.

But is Devon only interested in the fashion aspect? That certainly not the impression from his many interviews, outlining his inspirations and his experience building loudspeakers. He’s clearly inspired by certain types of audio design that create certain types of Sonic experiences that he likes.

Forgive me, but your remarks seem to have the character of “ old man yelling at cloud.”

I don't think so, the horn is a copy of a Altec Lansing 511B, an exact copy. And the basscabinet is totally modelled to the old 612C cabinet, exact the same form. This is the original with the 416 woofer and the 802 compression driver (not mine, picture of internet):

 

[MattHooper]

You've got to be kidding. We we were talking about aesthetics, the way they look, as in people think he's an artist. A bare horn on a box, not that many of those around these days. Almost identical to the Voice of the Theater. So yea the look, which is probably the most important thing to the hipster buying them is plagiarized. Who buys KEFs because they look cool?

Of course Devon is inspired by the old Altec and other designs. He openly says this. That doesn’t equate to being engaged in “ plagiarism. ” One may as well say that every speaker manufacturer stuffing cones into a rectangular box is “ plagiarizing” someone else. Or that everyone after Janszen or Quad have been just plagiarizing since the 50s. It’s just too elastic a charge.

Who buys KEFs because they look cool?

Tons of consumers care about how loudspeakers look. Why do you think KEF designs the speakers to look the way they do? Marketing and looks - including something that will be visually striking, to stand up from other products like the KEF blades - are part of the design choices.

In the case of KEF people can be buying on any combination of looks and sound quality, depending on their motivations.

Likewise, with the Ojas loudspeakers. It’s not only about looks for Devon but also a particular type of sound presentation, and any number of his customers will be attracted for the same reasons.

 

[MattHooper]

I don't think so, the horn is a copy of a Altec Lansing 511B, an exact copy. And the basscabinet is totally modelled to the old 612C cabinet, exact the same form. This is the original with the 416 woofer and the 802 compression driver (not mine, picture of internet):

View attachment 393669

Are you talking about the new model that he is producing with Klipsch?

If that turns out to be an “ exact copy” so be it. Ok.

But if you Google Devon and Ojas speakers, you’ll see that Devon has built many different designs for all sorts of applications, and I’d be surprised if they are all exact copies of previously existing. it seems to me he is playing with design similar to how different manufactures play with cones in boxes.

 

[mhardy6647]

A bare horn on a box, not that many of those around these days

Pretty common in my neck of the woods -- not just mine... there's, like, a cult of us out there.

High Efficiency

The quest for Hi-Fidelity through Hi Efficiency

hifihaven.org

Check Herb Reichert's column in the October 2023 issue of Stereophile, e.g.

 

[Ste_S]

You've got to be kidding. We we were talking about aesthetics, the way they look, as in people think he's an artist. A bare horn on a box, not that many of those around these days. Almost identical to the Voice of the Theater. So yea the look, which is probably the most important thing to the hipster buying them is plagiarized. Who buys KEFs because they look cool?

Plenty of boomers buy stuff because the brand is 'cool' to them; it's the way consumerism works.

As others have said, you are doing the old man rants at clouds thing, and trying to gate keeper hifi; wanting to exclude those who are younger.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I don't think so, the horn is a copy of a Altec Lansing 511B, an exact copy. And the basscabinet is totally modelled to the old 612C cabinet, exact the same form. This is the original with the 416 woofer and the 802 compression driver (not mine, picture of internet):

These Altec inspired horns are definitely not copies.

The Altec horns were diecast and had a thinner wall section than these sand cast horns. Also, the 511B horn is 23 5/8" wide with a suggested minimum crossover frequency of 500Hz. Altec's smaller version was the 811B horn which is 18 3/4" wide with a suggested minimum crossover frequency of 800Hz. The OJAS "copy" appears to be about 13" wide and has been called a 1211, so presumably it has a 1200Hz minimum crossover frequency.

Regarding the cabinet. A basic gray box is a basic gray box. I'm pretty sure no one feels they have ownership of that "design". The beauty is in the details which resonate with some of us and obviously don't with others.

 

[mhardy6647]

The Altec horns were diecast and had a thinner wall section than these sand cast horns. Also, the 511B horn is 23 5/8" wide with a suggested minimum crossover frequency of 500Hz. Altec's smaller version was the 811B horn which is 18 3/4" wide with a suggested minimum crossover frequency of 800Hz. The OJAS "copy" appears to be about 13" wide and has been called a 1211, so presumably it has a 1200Hz minimum crossover frequency.

I do feel the Altec-nerd-need to point out that early Altec 811B horns were indeed sand cast.
Here's an example from Joseph Esmilla

Altec 2-way horn system redux

jelabs.blogspot.com

sand cast 811B on the left; plastic "32C" on the right. The 32C is a pretty sweet little horn, directly descended from the WE 32A -- but I digress*.

Here's a regular old 811B for comparison


Probably no sand cast 511B were ever made... but the 511B is kind of a pariah in the Altec family, anyway!
Even I got rid of my pair -- and I don't get rid of much!


Speaking of art -- I want you all to note that's a plastic Hammond box (enclosure) holding up the aft end of the 511B in the photo above.

The fine Altec horns (besides the unassuming little 32C mentioned above) were the multicells, which were damped with tar and, to me, at least, are among the finest nearly affordable horns ever made.

... and then there were the RCA multicells of the 1940s.
____________
* for a big digression on this topic, see https://electravolt.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-tale-of-three-horns-variations-of.html
** No, I cannot afford 'em -- but I would have a pair of 1505 horns with 288 drivers if I could.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I do feel the Altec-nerd-need to point out that early Altec 811B horns were indeed sand cast.
Here's an example from Joseph Esmilla

Altec 2-way horn system redux

jelabs.blogspot.com

sand cast 811B on the left; plastic "32C" on the right. The 32C is a pretty sweet little horn, directly descended from the WE 32A -- but I digress*.

View attachment 393697

That is a collector's item.

In my tests the 511B when crossed over at 800Hz or higher actually worked quite well. Ultimately I still got rid of mine too.

A friend took a pair of my prototype cabinets, finished them nicely and stuck 511s in them and they actually sound quite good, they may have been the larger format 511E... but we digress.