Nuance Speakers

[Salseca]

I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge or expertise in the Nuance Speaker company's products. I received a set of sealed, dual driver speakers from my father that are wood enclosed (not laminate glued to particle board). They are nowhere near the height of home audio tower speakers but are far too large to be bookshelf speakers. I'd even say that they're too big to be studio monitors. The input on the rear is dual (gold plated?) + and - or black and red. The speaker wire passes through an eyelet and screw down threded nut clamps the speaker wire when screwed down tightly. They're about 20 years old and sound fantastic. Can anyone give me some insight as to where they stand on the proverbial totem pole of best or worst or anything on the Nuance name and number and how they compete today in the market? Thanks.

 

[GGroch]

No direct knowledge of Nuance. But there is a good bit of information available if you google. Apparently a Canadian brand in the mid 90s to perhaps the mid 2000s that was sold as a push line in Canadian HiFi/Mall stores. Push line meaning the high profit margins and sales commissions motivated salespeople to push the product over better known brands. High listed retail price...offered to customers at half price if they did not want to pay full retail. It appears the company trained retail salespeople to demo them using "Q-Sound" recordings that contained out of phase information that made the stereo image much wider.

That said, those who remember them say that although the sales techniques were suspect...the speakers were not bad...with decent crossovers, drivers, and cabinets. A good value if you negotiated well. Locally popular as friends told friends they were getting a "deal".

Given the where they were headquartered (Markham Ont) I am almost certain they were manufactured by API (Audio Products International)...based in Toronto. API was one of the largest speaker manufacturers who made name brand speakers (Like Mirage & Energy) and private brand speakers. I used to sell the API made Db Plus speakers in the 80s. One source said they shut down in about 2008...which was about the time Klipsch bought and shut down API.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Absolute garbage. One or two models that sounded okay but only like speakers at a tenth the price that these sold for. The biggest embarrassment to Canadian audio and the biggest blot on the reputation of Canadian audio in history. The selling was unscrupulous and so many got suckered into buying this overpriced crap on long term payment plans. The biggest seller of this brand, International Stereo in Edmonton, faced court proceedings in a class action suit in regards to this crap almost white van brand.
That people who think they know audio like them baffles me. This is not great or even good audio equipment. This was a con by the couple of conmen who ran this outfit.
I ran laughing from the high pressure sales pitch and ‘demo’. So loud, so distorted, so represented by such sleazeball salesguys it was truly unbelievable.

 

[Rich]

Bull. I owned nuance speakers in the past and in fact just bought used stuff for my daughter. They needed recapping and some added stuffing. Bought them second hand from a guy who sells used equipment. Solid 3/4 mdf, real wood veneer, 5 way banana posts. Second order crossover. Maybe the selling technique was suspect. I never encountered it myself. Even for the cabinets it's quality build.
As a side note the guy who started the company who's name escapes me used the testing facilities in Ottawa along with Polk paridgm, totom dahlquist to name a few. There is a reason Canadian speakers are good quality. The last poster has read the Kool-Aid and posted an opinion on a flawed assumption and I'm betting he has not done any a/b.
Rich

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I heard them in one of their hard sell mall locations. I build speakers with the finest of drivers and components. I couldn’t believe the shit sound of the Nuances. I walked out of there shaking my head and laughing. 1970s Technology Low Quality party blaster monkey coffins. A real con job. Nuance company were box stuffers of the worst order. The founder a Known con man. You won’t find anything good to say about these speakers except from defensive suckers who still need to defend their bad decision of 30 years ago. Get over it. I bought StudioLab speakers: shit of the same ilk back then. I grew up and actually learned something about audio and electronics thanks to an engineering education.
Particle Board not MDF, drivers with tiny magnets that look cheaper than the cheapest drivers from Parts Express, I took four of the 7” drivers home from a set my buddy and I found in an alley. Drivers crappier than anything you can buy at Princess Auto in the bargain bin. And vinyl Black wood grain thermowrap not veneer, crossovers with small gauge wires in the coils and electrolytic caps. I just helped gut the top of the line model with a buddy who found them in a dumpster.
There were so many good speakers you could have bought instead: Energy, PSB, Paradigm. These were targeted at frat boys who think loudness equals quality. Sorry to be so tribal but have you actually ever heard good speakers? More negative comments about them except from another defensive guy her at this link. Is it you again?
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nuance-speakers.884960/

 

[Gringoaudio1]

http://www.snowandmud.com/just-about-anything-goes/10189-nuance-speakers.html

Another thread about the conman George Baker, founder of Nuance, and the shark infested International Stereo in Edmonton, home of George Baker at one point, which was ground zero distribution of the Audio scourge that was Nuance. Now looking for information on the lawsuits against International Stereo, Nuance and Baker about criminal sales and financing schemes. If you were arm twisted into buying some Nuances in the 1980s you are probably still paying for them at 28%.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

http://forums.audioreview.com/news-rumors/dahlquist-speakers-part-nuance-13559.html
Another thread... and NRC and George Baker? Fat chance. Anything the salesman told you is a lie.
“

Tonehengesaid:03-26-2007 12:11 PM
George Baker...brings a chuckle always...

Baker is one of the great and colourful hucksters in the consumer audio trade. From his days with Cerwin Vega, to Sound Dynamics, to API, to Nuisance and Dahlquist Canada and whatever he ends up with next (Streem Speakers just SMELL of George), he has taken the same patented George Baker schtick (with minor modifications) to every product he sells. He really doesn't know **** from shinola, but his showbiz is fun to watch. He's like a turn of the century snakeoil salesman. You really begin to believe his speakers will get you laid! How do I know all this? A long time ago, I worked for him.............”​

 

[Gringoaudio1]

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Sorry! Hahaha. Welcome to AudioScience Review. Let’s stick to Amir’s actual scientific tests. Don’t even know why there are forums on this site for subjective opinions. The comments following his reviews should be the only place for us to comment.

 

[Rich]

Never defended nuance before now so wasn't me and it's not nessacary to be insulting to make your point. I was not aware of any of what you just posted and it's disheartening to see. I knew only very recently about how much nuance was over pricing and giving high sales commissions for product pushing. However as I mentioned I was not exposed to the high pricing or the q demonstration that I hear about either. I auditioned using dark side and aja.
I'm not a rich man so would not pay crazy for anything. What I paid for my nuance 5.1 ht in 95. 400 cdn. on layaway, 175 month for 6 months, then a final smaller payment the amount which escapes me now. 2 floorstanders, 2 bookshelf, 1 center, a sub, stands for the the books, and a yammy avr. I listened to several speaker brands in a/b comparisons at different stores including some you mentioned. Took a couple of weeks to decide. They are what sounded good to me that fit my budget. Did I hear better speakers. Yup lots of them. Paridigm monitor series being my choice then, but not at an extra grand that I didn't have. Again the best I heard for my budget. A decent starter system that lasted several years while we grew kids plus I sold all the speakers used for 400.00.
Are nuance speakers worth what I hear some payed for them. Hell no. Are they worth what I payed. Yes.
And thanks to that used market I now run the very paradigm speakers I wanted then in my ht now, except their sub.
Do I know good gear. Yup pretty sure I do. Will I spend stupid to get it. No. My hobby over the last 4 years is finding speakers in need of restoration. Stuff that's being sold as parts or damaged are often repairable. That's how I got my paridigm setup mostly. I sell them after fixing them.
Thanks for the links btw. Very insightful.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Again my apologies. I was so triggered by the word Nuance. Some small bookshelves were in the same location as the giant ones we gutted too and my buddy is using them. They sound as good as any inexpensive set of bookshelves I’ve heard. I went into diy because I couldn’t afford what I wanted. Turns out I probably have spent more on DIY than if I’d saved for something nice.

 

[Rich]

I appreciate the sentiment. I went off a bit too. Sorry for that. If it matters my whole point that I didn't do a good job of conveying btw is that good sound is relative. And like everything it follows the cost benifit line. I know this is an old post but I felt pissed that nuance is deemed crap. It is if you pay too much. Everybody speaks highly of the paridigm atom as a great speaker. For is price point vs value it is. When new. But given the used price of atoms vs the nuance. Not even close.
Btw my daughters system I put togehter with said nuance speakers with recapping and a Denon avr cost her a 125 bucks. She was rocking 2 Alexa in stereo. I told her I could get her 10 times the sound for a 125.00 bucks since I new I had to get a decent Bluetooth device so she could hook said Alexa up. Speakers and caps and lying around roxal 55 bucks. Denon 1612 avr 40 bucks. Avantree roxa Bluetooth 19.98 plus tax.
Result 10x the sound. You should have seen the smile on her face. Does she care that her speakers are not the best. Hell no. It's far better then she ever had. Plus she gets the satisfaction of paying for a deal and having better sound then most if not all of her friends. Sorry to babble.

 

[watchnerd]

Weird driver mountings

 

[Soniclife]

Weird driver mountings

Look at the cut out in the grill, if done correctly it's better than the way lots of hi-fi speakers and grill works.

 

[watchnerd]

Look at the cut out in the grill, if done correctly it's better than the way lots of hi-fi speakers and grill works.

Maybe, if done correctly.

Measurements would verify.

Otherwise, it's a nice cost savings.

 

[tablesdance]

Hi, I'm new here. I'm in the market for some speakers and driver units and came across some Nuance. I agree that this brand made some or many just "so so" speakers while there were lots "not so bad" when we know the kinda price tags we are talking about. But I have a very uncomfortable feeling from one harsh comment from G above. As matter of facts we can find American flood market with crapy products (tangible or intangible), and were over-acclaimed than they deserve. There are no lack of American Speakers over-rated putting profit margin before quality. Can any one tell me how good are those white vans from RS's and LXI of Walmart etc.? Just because they are "American", so they kept you quiet? I have owned a few lower end JBL's that were made in China, same the Polk's, at least the xovers and/or the parts, that gave up before warranty so I dug and found out. etc. etc. See today no lack of great Canadian brands, soon after changed hands to Americans, were sent to m.i.c. All these, using cheaper parts, cheaper places to maximize profit, so what's wrong with Nuance trying to make a few bucks. Contrary to that comment, I hold that many Canadian products were and are not "hard-sell" enough, and I blame them not tenacious enough to hold tight their brands at home, like many European family-owned businesses. PS: background info: I was a manufacturer myself, I know how difficult to survive in this highly competitive market as small or medium manufactory , and before that as an employee, working decades as regional executive of American corporations, I know their tricks and business phylosopy too well.

 

[GGroch]

Tabledance, Welcome!
The above criticism of Nuance has nothing at all to do with them being Canadian. The criticism is almost entirely based on the Nuance brand being exclusively sold by the "International Stereo" chain of stores which by all accounts were not ethical in their sales techniques, pricing, and financing.

Dishonesty in 1970s stereo retailing was not exclusive to Canada. My first industry jobs were with Denver dealers who were frequently sued and finally shut down because of unethical business practices. Each of them featured exclusive "house" speaker brands (Ultralinear, Matrix, Dante, and dB Plus for example) with huge (400% and higher) markups. As Rich points out in message 10 above, the price you actually paid depended on your luck, savvy, and negotiating skills. Fortunately this kind of speaker marketing is now mostly limited to the back of white vans.

Before this thread I knew nothing of Nuance founder George Baker. Co-founder of Audio Products International, at one time the largest speaker manufacturer in Canada, he was also responsible for high quality high value brands like Energy. My current HiVi DIY 2.2a speakers use API developed woofers.

That said, any evaluation of George Baker and the Nuance brand should be.....nuanced. Manufacturers like API almost never made large profit margins selling house brands like dB Plus or Nuance to retailers. Their profit came from the huge sales volume realized by being the go-to push product of less than ethical stereo chains. In my view this does not absolve the manufacturer of responsibility. These brands published "Suggested Retail" pricing far higher than comparable products in mainstream lines. They trained retailers' sales teams on slight of hand demo techniques designed to obscure rather than illuminate the real performance of these products. In the case of the API house brand dB Plus that I sold, the trick was simple; make sure they were louder than anything you compared them to.

None of this is directly related to the quality of Nuance speakers. But it is foolish to compare their business model to those of widely distributed major brands regardless of their country of origin.

 

[tablesdance]

Love to see someone called me out "foolish", I assure everyone I will re-think myself when I am no longer a fool.
(imo: business model may include from component-sourcing, out-sourcing production. to how-to-make cheaply, and tricks to sell, etc. so to maiximize profit). Anyway, I am not here to trade words. Just fairly expressed how I feel some harsh words posted above on a brand.

ps: oh yeah, I omitted to tell, it is my principle to be honest to do business, and I can't stand a minute when seeing one ripped off one way or the other.

 

[Benc]

Wow interesting thread here. I ended up at this site because I googled nuance as I have a pair of their bookshelf speakers. I've had them for over 20yrs and am surprised at what I've been reading here. While I agree where and how they were sold, I disagree with the idea that they are such crap. Either I am deaf or they aren't so bad. I was going to 'upgrade' yrs ago, even going as far as purchasing a couple different sets of speakers, jbl and Polk. I tried to give the other speakers a fair listen, trying everything from different types of music to movies, and wasn't happy and ended up sticking with my nuances. I had even tried upgrading my amp at the time I had a Sony. With all the mixing and matching of amps and speakers, I ended up keeping what I had - until my amp died and I upgraded to a Yamaha whichade things sound even better as it had less distortion.

My reason for looking into this brand was to try to get more info on the brand and what became of them, if they got bought out or just simply folded. But it seems rather than anyone giving any real info about anything all I see is people bashing them. I feel sound is somewhat subjective, as some people can't get enough bass, while others would rather next to none, and some can't tell if a speaker is clear or muddy sounding. It's funny how people will bash a set of speakers like this but think the crap sound you hear at a concert is acceptable?

I believe nuance was somehow related to audiosphere as they both contained the same brand components. Having owned both, I felt nuance has a cleaner sound.

Does anyone have any real info on either of these companies?

 

[auidoman2298]

Audio store I used to work at in New York sold Nuance. They sold them along side Paradigm, Energy, Infinity, and did good with them. I wasn't around at the time we were carrying them (several years before my birth) so I can't speak on sales practices but I know the owner's fairly well and they take audio very seriously, they would not sell anything as bad as people make them out to be. Besides that the company is long gone and anyone finding these now are going to buying them second hand and no one is getting swindled by pushy salesmen for x amount over what they're worth. They are more than adequate sounding speakers, old co worker gave me a pair of Grand 3 dual 8" tower speakers and they sound damn good. He raved to me about them all the time, he had nothing but good things to say about them.