• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

NRC bass measurements, front port vs rear port

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,562
I noticed that some of the Soundstage measurements, at the low end, seem to agree pretty well with manufacturer spec for front ported speakers, but not rear ported. Is it safe to generalize and say low end NRC measurements of front ported are good, but not measurements of rear ported? E.g. measurements of Usher BE718 (front ported) compared to Revel M106, below.
1612448833788.png

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/usheraudio_be718/




1612448951533.png

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
 

andreasmaaan

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6,652
Likes
9,403
Yeh, that's basically correct. The chamber is calibrated using a sealed box, so it can only really be relied upon below 100Hz for sealed designs, but it seems to get pretty close with front ported designs too. They explain this in a lot of detail somewhere, but I can't find the page rn...
 

Steve Dallas

Major Contributor
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,215
Likes
2,909
Location
A Whole Other Country
Yeh, that's basically correct. The chamber is calibrated using a sealed box, so it can only really be relied upon below 100Hz for sealed designs, but it seems to get pretty close with front ported designs too. They explain this in a lot of detail somewhere, but I can't find the page rn...

I was looking for that info recently as well, and could not find it again. I think they went as far as to say under 150Hz is questionable, and that at the wavelengths involved, the chamber would need to be 8x its size or something along those lines.
 
OP
P

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,562
Thanks for the replies. For me it is good enough to just have a general idea, but really it seems it would be proper to include a couple sentences every time along with the measurements noting the low end limitation. And maybe dash the line below 100Hz or something. I guess that ship has sailed, though.
 

Rick Sykora

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3,602
Likes
7,289
Location
Stow, Ohio USA

hardisj

Major Contributor
Reviewer
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
2,907
Likes
13,914
Location
North Alabama
Found it...
From Dr. Toole’s post here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-review-of-dutch-dutch’s-8c.7308/post-169843

Notably, the last paragraph.

These NRC archival photos are interesting, but I have never seen them before - but I was there at the claimed date . . . I suspect that the dates are wrong, as it looks as though they are testing the acoustical attenuation of ear defenders - the hard shell, liquid-filled cushion design was invented and patented by two of my colleagues before I got there in 1965. The speaker was almost certainly an AR-3, which was there when I arrived, and which I used in my first blind listening test in 1966.

One of the first things I did when I got full-time access to the chamber was to remove the acoustically hostile catwalk. The Barton photos show the new chamber wedges with the mic arrangement as it was when I left - along with the ancient, but obviously still functional, measurement apparatus. I left in 1991 - a long time ago.

For measurements below the approximately 80 Hz cutoff frequency, as quoted in post #125, calibration is necessary. The original calibration done in 1983 used measurements on a 10 meter tower as a reference. It was a significant effort, but deemed necessary. One can also use ground plane measurements. Incidentally the determining factor for low frequency cutoff is the length of the wedges - about 1/4 wavelength is the determining factor. To move the cutoff frequency down to 30 HZ would require impractically long wedges: about 10 ft! Chamber size is not critical, except that with long wedges more space is needed between them to be able to do the measurements.

The calibration woofer, as stated, was a closed box monopole. ANY bass radiator with different radiation characteristics, such as dipoles, long towers, bass reflex, cardioid, etc. will couple differently to the residual standing waves in the chamber and the calibration will be wrong, and will change with angular orientation within the standing wave pattern - exactly as happens in listening rooms. As I said, the most likely realistic response is the sound power metric, which soundstage does not purchase.
 

Steve Dallas

Major Contributor
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,215
Likes
2,909
Location
A Whole Other Country
Found what I was thinking of. It is not written word. It is Doug Schnieder discussing SoundStage! Networks' experience with the NRC chamber with Andrew from Axiom. Axiom built a clone of NRC's chamber. The key exchange is here at 19:44:


Also, Doug seems to have deleted his account here, which is sad. I liked his posts.
 
Top Bottom