Now hands up who want to try a 40W SECA version?

[Sal1950]

Here is the scary price list:-

WOW, $300-1500 ? That's a lot of money for speaker cable?
Is there any evidence that this cable will provide better electrical or/and audible performance than something like 12g Belden 5000UE? A stereo pair may be purchased from BlueJeanCable for $70, custom terminated with ultrasonically welded gold plated spades.

 

[Cosmik]

It is ironic to see both cables and amplifiers made by the same manufacturer costing approximately the same on the same price list - we all know that the intricacy and complexity of an amplifier is many orders of magnitude greater than a piece of wire. And the amplifier contains a fair amount of wire itself.

 

[Thomas savage]

It is ironic to see both cables and amplifiers made by the same manufacturer costing approximately the same on the same price list - we all know that the intricacy and complexity of an amplifier is many orders of magnitude greater than a piece of wire. And the amplifier contains a fair amount of wire itself.

Years ago in the uk chicken was more expensive than beef, needless to say the most expensive tends to be considered the delicacy..

Audio is no different .

 

[Colin James Wonfor]

The parts in the cable are few but the rare earth material and combination of parts to make a good cable are not cheap, let alone to tooling cost to extrude the cable which needs in one case 8 tools set and made in ceramic not mild steel not cheap at all, to pay for one tool we need to sell 100Km of one cable let alone 4 types and over 25 tools set, are you suggesting we should ignore this? would you could you afford to we can't.
The parts in the amps are produce in large number but the PCB and case tooling is still a lot less than the cable tooling.
On top of that the labour cost to assemble this cable set is high as the PCB is built by robot pick and place machine.
The soldering iron are not standard because of the material used the temperature must be high 400C+ and thus so does the solder no lead, and a few other bits added.
Timing the solder is also critical to long heating and good bye cable to short no solder, a skilled job I can do it but others are far far better.

 

[Thomas savage]

The parts in the cable are few but the rare earth material and combination of parts to make a good cable are not cheap, let alone to tooling cost to extrude the cable which needs in one case 8 tools set and made in ceramic not mild steel not cheap at all, to pay for one tool we need to sell 100Km of one cable let alone 4 types and over 25 tools set, are you suggesting we should ignore this? would you could you afford to we can't.
The parts in the amps are produce in large number but the PCB and case tooling is still a lot less than the cable tooling.
On top of that the labour cost to assemble this cable set is high as the PCB is built by robot pick and place machine.
The soldering iron are not standard because of the material used the temperature must be high 400C+ and thus so does the solder no lead, and a few other bits added.
Timing the solder is also critical to long heating and good bye cable to short no solder, a skilled job I can do it but others are far far better.

The brothers get twitchy when it comes to 'audiophile ' cable.

 

[Colin James Wonfor]

Rightly so, to many con men.

 

[Thomas savage]

Rightly so, to many con men.

What they would ask is, is all the extra tooling and expense these cables demand in their manufactoring Bourne out in actual measurable advantages over your garden variety cables?

What 'problem(s) ' are you defeating in your cable designs?

What are your main design priorities when developing cables both power and signal and what objective parameters inform those intelligent design choices?

Answers to these questions would Curtail their frothing.

 

[Sal1950]

Rightly so, to many con men.

What they would ask is, is all the extra tooling and expense these cables demand in their manufactoring Bourne out in actual measurable advantages over your garden variety cables?

What 'problem(s) ' are you defeating in your cable designs?

What are your main design priorities when developing cables both power and signal and what objective parameters inform those intelligent design choices?
Answers to these questions would Curtail their frothing.

Yes, exactly.
Please provide measurements or blind listening test results, preferably both to justify costs and claims of superior performance.

 

[Thomas savage]

Yes, exactly.
Please provide measurements or blind listening test results, preferably both to justify costs and claims of superior performance.

Sal is still frothing a little

 

[RayDunzl]

The parts in the cable are few but the rare earth material and combination of parts to make a good cable are not cheap

Ok, that piques my curiosity...

 

[sondale]

Yes, exactly.
Please provide measurements or blind listening test results, preferably both to justify costs and claims of superior performance.

Hi,
I am the Elsdon part of "Elsdon Wonfor Audio"; we published the relevant measurements on our web-site a few weeks ago for the mains cable. There is also an interview in which Colin and I say what we were are trying to do with our cables without giving away exactly how we do this.
We will publish specifications and measurements for all our cables which should give people of a scientific background enough info to justify our claims - http://www.elsdonwonforaudio.com/mc-v-specifications. If you feel that there is a measurement of the cable (which can be compared to the published measurements of other manufacturers) which would help you decide whether or not we are making false claims then please let us know.
As to Blind Listening Tests - tell me if someone asks you to explain something as part of a general conversation - how do you feel? Now you are asked the same thing but your future/reputation whatever is on the line - how do you feel?

 

[amirm]

Warm welcome to the forum Sondale. Any friend of Wonfer is a friend of ours.

Thanks so much for the measurement link. I tried to find another AC mains cable with measurements and I could not! They only provide safety ratings. I will have to measure the few I have to see how they compare.

 

[RayDunzl]

Hi

Excuse my skepticism, but...

My local Utility Transformer is about 60 meters away.

My Entrance Breaker Box is at least 25 cable meters away, with three conductor 14AWG Romex taking whaterver path it takes to/through other outlets to the 15Amp outlet that feeds my audio/visual gear.

How does a meter or two of specialty power cable do me any good?

 

[Sal1950]

Excuse my skepticism, but...

My local Utility Transformer is about 60 meters away.

My Entrance Breaker Box is at least 25 cable meters away, with three conductor 14AWG Romex taking whaterver path it takes to/through other outlets to the 15Amp outlet that feeds my audio/visual gear.

How does a meter or two of specialty power cable do me any good?

It comes with the magic dust Ray, didn't you know that?

 

[fas42]

Main thing a cable can add to the equation is to have some qualities which snub noise, from wherever. This can be done by adding an obvious box somewhere in it, or it could be by careful use of materials, and construction. Best solution is to have zero cable, the Kii Three approach - but I note it still apparently reacts to changes in the power cord, so even there the box of goodies is not robust enough to handle cable 'funnies' ...

 

[Cosmik]

I note it still apparently reacts to changes in the power cord

Do you have a link to that..?

 

[RayDunzl]

It comes with the magic dust Ray, didn't you know that?

Well, no, I don't expect that.

---

I found this discussion.

http://www.hifianswers.com/2016/10/...scuss-their-first-product-the-mc5-power-cord/

---

Shunyata/Fremer has published this test. I'm not impressed when I consider the actual application vs their test setup.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm

---

Beyond that I don't know of anything.

 

[fas42]

Do you have a link to that..?

Not off the top of my head - I noted that at least one person tried various leads and found that there was variation - somewhere in the general chatter about the Kii back then. I'm sure a hunt around would track down that comment ...

 

[watchnerd]

Ok, that piques my curiosity...

View attachment 3922

Why would one use a rare earth metal in audio cables?

I'm totally baffled.

 

[RayDunzl]

Why would one use a rare earth metal in audio cables?

If you're actually asking me, I have no idea.

Copper - ETP grade - C11000 - and lots of it - floats my boat.