Novation Audiofuse - I need help - ADC - DAC

[Josef Strom]

I wrote the Novation Support an email with the question what ADC an DAC there using in the Novation Audiofuse Rev 1/2. The responded with that answear:

Both AudioFuse & AudioFuse Rev2 Use the same AKM Premium Silksound ADC AK55XX and DAC AK44XX. The XX depends on the number of channels.

I try to find out what chips they are exactly using without opening the case:

The Audifuse has 14 in and outputs.
• Dynamic range: 119dB (A-weighted)
• THD+N: -104dB (A-weighted)
Power Adapter (18V, 1,66 A) and usb bus powered

https://www.akm.com/jp/en/products/audio/audio-adc/
https://www.akm.com/eu/en/products/audio/audio-dac/

Do the In/outs work with the channels of the chips ?

I am prettty shure there are some Pro s here who can push me in the right direction .

 

[AnalogSteph]

Inputs are rated 117-118 dB(A), that pretty much leaves the AK557x series only for ADCs (if a finished product even remotely matches the chip specs, someone has done a good job and spent a bit on the analog stage). Perhaps a 5578 plus 5576 to get the 14 channels.

DAC wise, AKM has nothing multichannel that could do 119 dB(A) or higher, so my bets would be on a bunch of AK4490s or - more likely - AK4493s. I doubt a mid-priced multichannel interface like this would be using anything fancier than these mass-market parts if they need 7 of them.

Great, so that's another manufacturer potentially affected by the AKM factory fire.

 

[Josef Strom]

wow AnalogSteph ...you guessed pretty good ! I wrote the support again - this time with a littel descent pressure....
The support wrote this:

Hello Josef

Here is a table the Product Manager sent me, I hope it gives you more information, the Product Manager told me that this is all the information that Arturia can provide to the public.

The secret is lifted and that puts the Arturia Audiofuse next to the ADI-2 DAC AKM4490 Rev. 1....that makes the Arturia Audiofuse quite a Bang for the Buck

 

[AnalogSteph]

OK, I wasn't expecting a brand-new product to be using an ADC that went obsolete some time before September 2020 (at least it was no longer listed on AKM's website at this point, unfortunately the next earlier data point I could find was May 2018 when the part still was alive and well), but I guess they may have had enough stock or gotten it at a good price.

The secret is lifted and that puts the Arturia Audiofuse next to the ADI-2 DAC AKM4490 Rev. 1....that makes the Arturia Audiofuse quite a Bang for the Buck

Quite frankly, it's not the DACs that make the ADI-2 DAC as expensive as it is... if you just want an AK4493, the Topping E30 has one, too. It's the "everything else" - like DSP features, widely variable output stage gain and a choice of two high-quality headphone outputs. RME have rarely been about using the very fanciest converters available, often sticking with good upper midrange parts instead - but they would always squeeze great performance out of them. The performance specs for the old ADI-2 (A/D AK5385, D/A AK4395) are essentially at chip datasheet level.

I had a peek in the Audiofuse manual, and there seems to be a surprising amount of analog circuitry in the output signal path. With an analog level control plus a 20 dB pad, I bet output noise should never be an issue.

BTW, there must be another little ADC or codec hiding away in the Audiofuse to handle the talkback mic in (it is limited to 96 kHz). Headphone output DR is suspiciously low as well.

 

[Josef Strom]

AnalogSteph - what would be the next upgrade step in audioquality dac wise (holographic, wide stereofield,lightning fast, best mids , punchy and dry bass)without breaking the bank - around 600 Euro to 1000Euro - is there a future ADC/DAC Design i should wait for ? .... i have a Neumann KH 120A Monitors and Sub

 

[AnalogSteph]

You are looking in the wrong place. Assuming your digital levels remain below 0 dBFS at all times, any two competent DACs will deliver the exact same sound quality, and have for quite a while. Output levels may differ and you may run into the noise floor of one earlier than another, but once the rest of the system is dialed in so that DAC dynamic range comfortably covers silence to the highest levels you'll ever need (which is roughly 110 dB), expect them to be transparent. (When there is analog volume control following, you can get by with a lot less, like 95 dB.) There may be the odd exception like the Topping D10s that's using a digital filter with an anachronistic amount of periodic filter ripple for some reason (Julian Dunn must be turning in his grave), but the vast majority are exempt from such silliness.

If you want any sort of earth-shattering improvements, the area to tackle is room acoustics. Take measurements (e.g. with REW and a good omni measurement(-grade) microphone, either calibrated or with very tight tolerances stock), try to optimize positioning if you find any problematic room modes, optimize acoustic treatment for decay times that are within the green (typically 0.25-0.3 s RT60 or so) and as constant across the audible spectrum as possible (easier said than done), and leverage some of the headroom afforded by fancy DACs for parametric EQ to tame remaining unevenness <500 Hz. Unless you are one of the few people who have already dialed in their rooms to this level, that should keep you busy for a while. We have a forum for this, too, which is a good thing because it's a science in itself. Oh, and rule of thumb, acoustic treatment can be expensive if it has to look fancy but if in doubt you can virtually always get by on a much tighter budget with some ingenuity. A roll of rock wool tossed in the corner makes about as good a bass trap as any...

Oh, and maybe look into another sub, too. The more you have the better a chance you have of evening out the bass response across the room.

 

[Josef Strom]

AnalogSteph ....interessting . I jumped on the DAC train years ago when i bought the Korg Zero 8 mixer back in 2010 - ADC AK5359 DAC AK4384 . I thought i had an good sounding piece of gear (pricing started over 2000 euro back then) but i was proven wrong with the entry of the Asus Xonar Essence One . The difference in soundquality was day and night ...like there was an thick blanket over the Korg Zero 8 sound - percent wise i would say 20% better overall details for the Essence One.
The difference between the Asus Xonar Essence One and the Arturia Audifuse is way more subtile - a littel more speed(Dry) here and there and a littel more punch - thats it ...

Is the ADC/DAC technology hitting a brickwall ?

 

[Goodman]

AnalogSteph ....interessting . I jumped on the DAC train years ago when i bought the Korg Zero 8 mixer back in 2010 - ADC AK5359 DAC AK4384 . I thought i had an good sounding piece of gear (pricing started over 2000 euro back then) but i was proven wrong with the entry of the Asus Xonar Essence One . The difference in soundquality was day and night ...like there was an thick blanket over the Korg Zero 8 sound - percent wise i would say 20% better overall details for the Essence One.
The difference between the Asus Xonar Essence One and the Arturia Audifuse is way more subtile - a littel more speed(Dry) here and there and a littel more punch - thats it ...

Is the ADC/DAC technology hitting a brickwall ?

 

[Goodman]

Highly possible; the Asus Xonar Essence was and is an excellent dac; it uses the same chip as some of the new and more expensive dacs on today's market. It has a proper linear power supply (not a wall wart) separate volume for line and headphones, bit perfect, switchable over sampling, build quality is outstanding. I own several newer and more expensive dacs that are highly rated, but I keep going back this 10 year old dac. Used as a preamp it is a bit warm sounding which can give the impression of less high end detail; this is an easy fix by changing 2 op amps on the output. If you have high efficient speaker, (I use Zu's Supperflys) don't change anything.
Perhaps the people who measure have a better answer.

 

[Grooved]

wow AnalogSteph ...you guessed pretty good ! I wrote the support again - this time with a littel descent pressure....
The support wrote this:

Hello Josef

Here is a table the Product Manager sent me, I hope it gives you more information, the Product Manager told me that this is all the information that Arturia can provide to the public.

View attachment 143143

The secret is lifted and that puts the Arturia Audiofuse next to the ADI-2 DAC AKM4490 Rev. 1....that makes the Arturia Audiofuse quite a Bang for the Buck

Thanks for sharing that, I was searching for it
Back to your first post, the 14 in and out and not really concerned by ADC and DAC as the interface has 8 in and out via ADAT, so it would leave only 6 in and out to be converted