Not trying to be arrogant here, but who listens to this?

[Daverz]

Choices, it's about making choices. You like modern classical, drive on. It's not for me, at least not most of it. On my father, about the closest he got to modern was maybe Erin Copeland. His orchestra did do a few pieces from Copeland that were very nice. Not sure how old you are, but the Boston Classical Orchestra performed at Faneuil Hall. Here's a Mozart Sonata. Mozart was his favorite for sure:

Surely you've read enough ASR to know that Mozart is twiddly-dink music not worth the time of real manly men.

I'm not from the Boston area, so I'm not familiar with the local orchestras unless they recorded extensively.

Professional musicians who spend decades learning their craft are understandably often very focused on a particular repertoire because rehearsal time for unknown music is limited and expensive, renting new orchestral parts is also expensive, and they must consider what will sell concert tickets to the audience they have spent years building. They have much more to lose than just an hour spent listening to a disappointing recording.

I try not to be dismissive of music I have not heard or given a fair shake, though I did that plenty when I was young and knew everything. I still struggle to overcome old prejudices about music. In particular, I find the cynicism and narrow-mindedness of so many here on ASR about music they've never really made a good-faith effort to engage with to be poisonous. To continue with the analogy, we have to let the horses run, the race has to be fair, and we need to see a fair number of races before our opinion of the horses might be considered interesting.

 

[LTig]

Just back from the local orchestra. They played this concerto:

Despite its atonality it was listenable, and the performance of both soloist and orchestra was incredible. They created sounds I've never heard before - one of the reasons I like to listen to contemporary classical music.

 

[Multicore]

Ligeti is being divisive on Twitter again

I haven't listened to this for years. So good. This performance is tight af. Wow.

I wonder how much influence the Mothers of Invention had on Ligeti ;>

 

[Multicore]

Perhaps not the most elevator friendly Ligeti, but I think the third of the 6 Bagatelles for Wind Quintet would make for a pleasant elevator trip:

It's lovely. It's from before he moved West in 56 when he composed safe music for performance and anything a bit risky he kept in a drawer. One of the impressive things about Ligeti is the many different styles of music he has worked in and excelled in.

 

[Multicore]

Just back from the local orchestra. They played this concerto:

Despite its atonality it was listenable, and the performance of both soloist and orchestra was incredible. They created sounds I've never heard before - one of the reasons I like to listen to contemporary classical music.

Thanks for sharing. The composer is new to me. Initially I was turned off by the romanticism of the cello part but as it went on the composition gets really impressive in its novel control of the forces available. I'm going to listen again.

The composer studied with Ligeti around the time he was working on the piano studies.

 

[ahofer]

I try not to be dismissive of music I have not heard or given a fair shake, though I did that plenty when I was young and knew everything. I still struggle to overcome old prejudices about music. In particular, I find the cynicism and narrow-mindedness of so many here on ASR about music they've never really made a good-faith effort to engage with to be poisonous. To continue with the analogy, we have to let the horses run, the race has to be fair, and we need to see a fair number of races before our opinion of the horses might be considered interesting.

Yeah that’s about right. But “poisonous” may be an overstatement. We develop strong connections with music we love. New music very often transgresses the boundaries of that music, and almost feels like a personal affront or barrier sometimes.

I quoted Rob Kapilow earlier saying that great art masters the conventions of its predecessors along the way to breaking them. It’s harder to perceive that greatness unless you see the process unfolding that way, I think. By necessity this means most people have to do a lot of listening (or playing) before they are going to feel anything but excluded by serialism and later atonal music.

(I’m sure a few here will say they love it all right away, but that’s pretty damn unusual AFAICT)

 

[Sal1950]

I find the cynicism and narrow-mindedness of so many here on ASR about music they've never really made a good-faith effort to engage with to be poisonous.

I believe you overstate that about our members.
There are many fans of all genre's who will insist that if you don't appreciate the same music they do,
you haven't given it a fair chance. But music is like just about any other kind of art, it either speaks to you
or it doesn't. Most of the members here have spent a lifetime enjoying music and spent a lot of money to hear it
reproduced well, they really don't need an "appreciation class"

 

[EJ3]

Yeah that’s about right. But “poisonous” may be an overstatement. We develop strong connections with music we love. New music very often transgresses the boundaries of that music, and almost feels like a personal affront or barrier sometimes.
By necessity this means most people have to do a lot of listening (or playing) before they are going to feel anything but excluded by serialism and later atonal music.

(I’m sure a few here will say they love it all right away, but that’s pretty damn unusual AFAICT)

I have tried listening these styles of music about 20 times: this time being the longest that I could (after taking a muscle relaxer and having an adult libation [I just recently had a cervical fusion done of several vertebrae, so I have been prescribed these things]) on a 24 hour empty stomach while making a pizza & turning this on (Unsuk Chin- Cello Concerto [using some nice Sennheiser wireless headphones]) after making myself a second adult libation & sitting down to eat my pizza.
I managed to resist shutting this off or ripping my headphones off for a full 15 minutes of torture. I then calmly turned this off after wasting this time which I will never get back.
So, I thought I would try something else by Unsuk Chin to see if it was him or the composition.
I chose:

Alice in Wonderland (2007) Opera​

Contemporary Classical
The first 8 minutes were almost as horrid as the previous listening but, being that it was an opera (growing up partially in Salzburg, Austria, I know something of them and that I am not fond of them) but the opera had enough going for it after the 8 minute mark that I watched/listened until about the 45 minute mark (wile polishing off the whole pizza & having another adult libation, & tak
While I would never recommend it to someone, I have invested enough time in it & am intrigued enough by it, that one day, when it's raining & storming outside & there is absolutely nothing else worth doing except perhaps sleeping, if I cannot sleep because the storm is so bad, I will finish watching/listening to it.
I have finished my education of these styles and made my decision.
These to styles of music have now been added to the other 2 styles of music that I will never seek out to listen to again (although, should I somehow encounter them through being with someone, somewhere in the world that brings me along to such, I will politely go with them & tolerate it with finesse & when asked about it after the fact, I will simply say:
"well that was interesting".
The truth being that the person having us go there was probably interesting to me until after attending this event.
They would have to be extremely interesting in other aspects for them to have a place in my life after such an event.

 

[Multicore]

Yeah that’s about right. But “poisonous” may be an overstatement. We develop strong connections with music we love. New music very often transgresses the boundaries of that music, and almost feels like a personal affront or barrier sometimes.

I quoted Rob Kapilow earlier saying that great art masters the conventions of its predecessors along the way to breaking them. It’s harder to perceive that greatness unless you see the process unfolding that way, I think. By necessity this means most people have to do a lot of listening (or playing) before they are going to feel anything but excluded by serialism and later atonal music.

I think you're right about that however the comments from some people, for example in this thread, about music they don't like are sometimes pretty poisonous and sometimes it's clearly deliberate. There are many more people, I presume, who dislike or feel excluded by such-and-such without saying anything or without being mean in what they say. But those aren't the cases that I tend to remember. It's the deliberate insults that are most memorable. So for a general characterization, poisonous probably isn't fair but when one of "those" guys comes and dumps on the thread and a crowd follows up with their jeering it can be rather dispiriting.

I acknowledge that the New Music Ghetto is a thing and within it are those who cherish the hermetic exclusivity and preen like philosophy academics when they can score scholarly points off each other. Some of the music sounds like it was written by people aspiring to that status. But some of the music is really good and I'll defend it. And when somebody throws insults at me for liking certain music from The Ghetto, projecting elitism or worse onto me as my motive, I might well feel that's toxic. It doesn't happen often but it does happen from time to time.

 

[Multicore]

So, I thought I would try something else by Unsuk Chin to see if it was him or the composition.

This is Unsuk Chin

Do you listen to classical music much? What sort of music do you typically choose to listen to in the kind of listening scenario you described?

 

[ahofer]

I think you're right about that however the comments from some people, for example in this thread, about music they don't like are sometimes pretty poisonous and sometimes it's clearly deliberate.

It makes me think of my adolescence, when one might hear “you like the Doobie Brothers? You suck!” or something like that.

It seems like it is human to make tribes of everything we feel strongly about, and then police the borders for disloyalty.

 

[Multicore]

It makes me think of my adolescence, when one might hear “you like the Doobie Brothers? You suck!” or something like that.

It seems like it is human to make tribes of everything we feel strongly about, and the. police the borders for disloyalty.

Sports is another example. And so is hi-fi. There are holy wars in hi-fi that persist despite that everything meaningful that can be said on the subject has been said a million times, which suggests to me that the reward for joining the fight is unrelated to the subject matter at hand.

 

[Ron Texas]

There's a lot of great contemporary/modern classical music available. Do a web search and explore what's available. It's an acquired taste, like IPA.

 

[EJ3]

This is Unsuk Chin

Do you listen to classical music much? What sort of music do you typically choose to listen to in the kind of listening scenario you described?

Everything: except for the ones that I described: Classical, Prog Rock, Rock, Classical Rock, Jazz, Blues, Blue Grass, Country, Country & Western, Modern country (which seems similar to Southern Rock to me), Electronica, Dance Music, Austrian-German-Italian Folk Music, American Folk Music, Reggae, Island Music from Saipan, Guam, Hawaii, Polynesian, K-Pop music, 40's swing, 40's style swing, Rock-a- Billy, Shag (as in dancing the "Shag"), Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc and much, much more.
I do not allow gratuitous cursing in music that I listen to (So that eliminates a certain amount of music from certain genres)
I own some of each genre that I have mentioned.

 

[Multicore]

Everything: except for the ones that I described: Classical, Prog Rock, Rock, Classical Rock, Jazz, Blues, Blue Grass, Country, Country & Western, Modern country (which seems similar to Southern Rock to me), Electronica, Dance Music, Austrian-German-Italian Folk Music, American Folk Music, Reggae, Island Music from Saipan, Guam, Hawaii, Polynesian, K-Pop music, 40's swing, 40's style swing, Rock-a- Billy, Shag (as in dancing the "Shag"), Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc and much, much more.
I do not allow gratuitous cursing in music that I listen to (So that eliminates a certain amount of music from certain genres)
I own some of each genre that I have mentioned.

Thanks.
How do you like Richard Wagner?

 

[EJ3]

Thanks.
How do you like Richard Wagner?

Just OK. I prefer my home town Mozart. Wagner is far down my classical list.
I do want to mention that I may feel different about a live performance of any music, as I tend to like being there better than listening on a stereo.

 

[ahofer]

Adding to my listening requirement (1st piece)

Update: it features a quartet within the orchestra tuned down a quarter tone. And yet it kinda works. This stuff is always so much better live.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Despite its atonality it was listenable, and the performance of both soloist and orchestra was incredible. They created sounds I've never heard before - one of the reasons I like to listen to contemporary classical music.

I enjoyed this cello concerto (also the violin and sheng concertos by her on the same DG album on Qobuz). Can’t say I understood it, but I enjoyed it. Plenty of “audiophile” moments, too, for showing off one’s system

 

[Multicore]

Just OK. I prefer my home town Mozart. Wagner is far down my classical list.

Ok. The Chin cello concerto was way too romantic for my sensibilities. But I stuck with it and became interested by the orchestral writing and the variety and how the cello works with the orchestra. That was pleasing and enough to keep me going.

I do want to mention that I may feel different about a live performance of any music, as I tend to like being there better than listening on a stereo.

Yes, that's a big deal. Context, purpose and social role are all very important. As listeners at home we are consumers and the customer is king. We often choose the music to serve our purpose. At a concert someone else is in charge and we serve their purpose.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Not something I would have chosen to listen to but actually playing some of it reminds me of very early Tangerine Dream and kosmiche krautrock and impressionist music.

Reading about the piece, it's an interesting story