Not trying to be arrogant here, but who listens to this?

[Multicore]

Speaking of organists, I caught up with the incident last week when one of Kali Malone's performances was blocked by a Catholic fundamentalist group in France (reminded me of earlier pages in this thread, very slightly). Apparently one of her tracks being called Sacer Profanare was enough to set them off (what must they think of Dante?) along with the heresy of playing "electro" in a church (she does electronic also).

I'm impressed that the protestors were so well informed about what I have to assume is a niche musical interest.

Hoever, the pitchfork think you linked says "The show had been scheduled as part of the You Origin series organized by Sunn O)))’s Stephen O’Malley, who appeared on Malone’s latest album, Does Spring Hide Its Joy. The two artists played at the same venue the night before the protest." so that performance might have been what drew attention. I don't know what Stephen O’Malley was playing the night before but Sunn O))) used to be relentless in a one-dimensional aesthetic of satanic doom and dirge.

 

[ahofer]

I'm impressed that the protestors were so well informed about what I have to assume is a niche musical interest.

Ravel has a piece nearly by that name.

This cancel culture, which one encounters everywhere today, I find quite terrible.

Agreed. With respect to music, I often reply “there’s something interesting in every genre, but sometimes the search costs are high”. That usually interrupts the flow of the instigator.

 

[Axo1989]

I'm impressed that the protestors were so well informed about what I have to assume is a niche musical interest.

Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than a little misogyny mixed in with the fundamentalism. Something similar happened with Anna von Hausswolff performance a couple of years ago, also in France.

Edit: it looks like Civitas object to most everything—not just putative witches—and they've been interrupting avant garde performances for a decade or more.

 

[Multicore]

With such a recommendation, I thought I'd listen to her stuff, and enjoyed it. The 2023 album with current collaborators is a collection of long-form drone pieces:

I put an old recording of one of my drones on Youtube recently. Maybe you enjoy.

Again I think the influence of Xenakis is there with the transitions from organized to chaotic, from pitches to noise, and with these forces in tension inside one system.

 

[Axo1989]

I put an old recording of one of my drones on Youtube recently. Maybe you enjoy.

Again I think the influence of Xenakis is there with the transitions from organized to chaotic, from pitches to noise, and with these forces in tension inside one system.

Yes, I will listen!

I think they have to project a bit to hear Satan amongst the drones, but movement between organisation and chaos certainly can set people off. It's good in a sense that this art inspires passion, albeit negative/dimwitted.

Meaning Malone and Hausswolff, the latter I knew already. I've not come across Sunn O))) before, apparently a type of metal? Looks like their last release (live for BBC in 2021) actually features Hausswolff, interesting.

 

[Multicore]

We're on thin ice here. Neither pohl iti ks nor real idg eon are permissible discussion topics on ASR.

 

[Axo1989]

We're on thin ice here. Neither pohl iti ks nor real idg eon are permissible discussion topics on ASR.

Yes. My query on tuning and/or compositional strategies still stands. I think we can discuss tension/organisation/chaos in that context. Also perhaps the reactions (positive/negative) to the music are more existential than either of the other things.

 

[Axo1989]

I put an old recording of one of my drones on Youtube recently. Maybe you enjoy.

Now I did enjoy. It's interesting to slow down in effect and listen to this type of music where change is gradual and interleaved rather than punctuated. Also, very nice tones you came up with, I often had the feeling of a bell stretched in time.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Even in our small town, modern art and music has a hard time. But there have been no protests and other cancel culture attempts yet.
On Sunday there are several organ concerts in our town. For example, on the legendary 'Sonnenorgel'

I took a photo of it earlier today when I made my walk.

There will also be played a piece by John Cage and also other contemporary music. We will go there.

 

[Multicore]

Yes. My query on tuning and/or compositional strategies still stands. I think we can discuss tension/organisation/chaos in that context. Also perhaps the reactions (positive/negative) to the music are more existential than either of the other things.

You may need to restate the question for me but with respect to the bigger topic of what upsets people, discomfort of the unfamiliar is a possibility.

In the drones I made back then it sounds to me now that I am aiming to conjurer two things that are in conflict but can't succeed without the other. Have you noticed how the landscapes that people describe as beautiful are often terrifying with only a small change in perspective? Change the weather and imagine yourself there having to survive. It's as though the possibility of threat and harm is needed to appreciate the beauty. Without the presence of or and proximity to beauty, it is hard to take in the other? Maybe?

So I say, alright, let's go there, to the chaos, explore ourselves affected by it, allow ourselves to feel fear and disorientation, perhaps we can use the moment to explore rage or submission.

Now I get that plenty of people don't want that. And if I brought it into a space that some consider sacred to their traditions they might understandably feel threatened. After all, orthodoxy is the division of everything esoteric into that which is supported by the tradition and that which is proscribed, or, more simply, true and false.

When I go back over the recordings, it seems that the music (and it seems largely true also in the band Blood Money) usually returned at least partly to safety before each piece ended although leaving a sense of ever present danger. Thinking back now this seems to contrast with the noise artists of the 90s that inspired me/us, or at least gave us permission. And it almost spiritual, not merely confrontational, although I doubt I would have accepted that description at the time.

 

[Axo1989]

You may need to restate the question for me but with respect to the bigger topic of what upsets people, discomfort of the unfamiliar is a possibility.

In the drones I made back then it sounds to me now that I am aiming to conjurer two things that are in conflict but can't succeed without the other. Have you noticed how the landscapes that people describe as beautiful are often terrifying with only a small change in perspective? Change the weather and imagine yourself there having to survive. It's as though the possibility of threat and harm is needed to appreciate the beauty. Without the presence of or and proximity to beauty, it is hard to take in the other? Maybe?

So I say, alright, let's go there, to the chaos, explore ourselves affected by it, allow ourselves to feel fear and disorientation, perhaps we can use the moment to explore rage or submission.

Now I get that plenty of people don't want that. And if I brought it into a space that some consider sacred to their traditions they might understandably feel threatened. After all, orthodoxy is the division of everything esoteric into that which is supported by the tradition and that which is proscribed, or, more simply, true and false.

When I go back over the recordings, it seems that the music (and it seems largely true also in the band Blood Money) usually returned at least partly to safety before each piece ended although leaving a sense of ever present danger. Thinking back now this seems to contrast with the noise artists of the 90s that inspired me/us, or at least gave us permission. And it almost spiritual, not merely confrontational, although I doubt I would have accepted that description at the time.

I included my initial question because you, @computer-audiophile and others are better versed both in music theory and in listening experience so maybe can add something beyond my primarily aesthetic response to that artist/that music. Not critical to answer !!

On the beauty thing, yes I have noticed that. While beauty can also be seen in the microcosm and the detail, beauty and awe often go hand-in-hand. And beauty on the edge of chaos. We can even imagine death as beautiful (even though I don't want it yet). Not that I am overly attached to some metal genre cliches. But I can also see how something like Hausswolff's Dead Magic can be challenging (existentially more than aesthetically).

The transgressive aspect is also interesting, in terms of reactions to it. It is interesting as you say that people even pay sufficient attention to object strongly. The interlocutors mentioned are likely into control as a reaction (and integralism which I learnt of only last week appears to desire return to theocracy, which is a bit outside scope for discussion here) but it does speak to a preference for well known, reliable structure in music. Something I can enjoy but don't require.

I don't recall when I first noticed but I've liked incidental sounds as intrinsically musical for some time now. Audible patterns of natural processes, rhythms of machinery, phase interactions in enclosed spaces and so on. And different timeframes. I can enjoy a > 2 minute song but also a > 2 hour piece that develops/modulates on that longer timescale.

Thanks for the Bandcamp link btw, enjoying Blood Brotherhood just now (edit: ok, including some throat singing, Ken Ueno is an interesting character it seems)

 

[Axo1989]

Even in our small town, modern art and music has a hard time. But there have been no protests and other cancel culture attempts yet.
On Sunday there are several organ concerts in our town. For example, on the legendary 'Sonnenorgel'

I took a photo of it earlier today when I made my walk.

There will also be played a piece by John Cage and also other contemporary music. We will go there.

View attachment 287360

Damn, I do envy your old-world cultural settings !!

 

[computer-audiophile]

Hi Axo

No reason to be envious.

After all, we live somewhat remotely and regularly have to drive hours to reach the metropolises of music or art high culture. That's the price we pay for the peace and quiet living in a small ancient town with the pleasant nature surroundings.

 

[Multicore]

The transgressive aspect is also interesting, in terms of reactions to it.

Yes. That's one of the reasons I wasn't as down on Civitas as some, perhaps. Without people like this you have nothing to push against and there is no transgression.

Thanks for the Bandcamp link btw, enjoying Blood Brotherhood just now (edit: ok, including some throat singing, Ken Ueno is an interesting character it seems)

I am very proud to have collaborated with Ken.

 

[Multicore]

I don't recall when I first noticed but I've liked incidental sounds as intrinsically musical for some time now. Audible patterns of natural processes, rhythms of machinery, phase interactions in enclosed spaces and so on.

Do you know the film Step Across the Border from 1990? It's partly a documentary about Fred Frith, partly a setting for a variety of music, and partly an avant-garde film. It's really beautiful and I love it and the music. I mention it because Frith and the film makers both have good snapshot sensibility. A snapshot is when you carry a camera with you and when you happen to see something that might make a nice picture, you snap it. It requires a rather curious balance between trying to take pictures and not trying. If you set about hunting for these things then your subjective intentionality imposes itself on the process and you have a standard creative frame of work. Snapshooting is somewhere less like purposeful creation and more like allowing art to happen to you.

I believe this works also for film and sound.

Step Across the Border has many such moments both visual and acoustic, combining them with a low-key art and loving touch. It's no surprise I guess that a film about improvising musicians features so much "found" music and art.

I can't find a clip of it in YT but one moment I remember is of a candy machine. But it's on the album, albeit different.

 

[computer-audiophile]

.... While beauty can also be seen in the microcosm and the detail, beauty and awe often go hand-in-hand. And beauty on the edge of chaos. We can even imagine death as beautiful (even though I don't want it yet). Not that I am overly attached to some metal genre cliches. But I can also see how something like Hausswolff's Dead Magic can be challenging (existentially more than aesthetically).

The transgressive aspect is also interesting, in terms of reactions to it. It is interesting as you say that people even pay sufficient attention to object strongly. The interlocutors mentioned are likely into control as a reaction (and integralism which I learnt of only last week appears to desire return to theocracy, which is a bit outside scope for discussion here) but it does speak to a preference for well known, reliable structure in music. Something I can enjoy but don't require.

I don't recall when I first noticed but I've liked incidental sounds as intrinsically musical for some time now. Audible patterns of natural processes, rhythms of machinery, phase interactions in enclosed spaces and so on. And different timeframes. I can enjoy a > 2 minute song but also a > 2 hour piece that develops/modulates on that longer timescale.

Yes, all this can be great!

I am also a friend of natural sounds, musique concrète, recordings of soundscapes. In our sound artist / sound researcher group C.A.R.M.E.N this was part of the program. We made some public concerts on this theme.

For Example: Friday, November 14, 2008 at 8:00 pm the C.A.R.M.E.N welcomes to the Little Barn of Sounds: Albert Mayr who will present some aspects of landscape music:

Tiziano Popoli - 'Suoni dalle aree protette della provincia di Modena'.

Michael Rüsenberg/Hans Ulrich Werner - Lisboa! A soundscape portrait'

Barry Truax - 'La sera di Benevento'

Gabriele Proy - 'Slaughterhouse'. http://www.gabrieleproy.at/index.html

I still remember that I recognized e.g. the city of Lisbon within seconds just by the sounds recorded in its streets. It is amazing what our brain is capable of.

Photo from Albert Mayr with my red 300B Amps in the background, which were used for this event for PA.

Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Mayr

 

[computer-audiophile]

Let's go on with contemporary music: Just a few minutes ago we received an invitation from https://choirofmachines.com/ in June.
The invitation came from friends from a HiFi group in Dresden, with whom we have loose contact.

"Dear HiFi friends,
those who have already been there in 2021 know what it's all about, analog synthesizers played live, in the 2nd part additionally spurred on by a drum kit.
As a special feature this time we will play over a small PA system from Geithain which is kindly provided for this concert."

 

[Liya]

what exactly are you enjoying in the music?

I am a massive fan of music from the age of ten. I can't live without it. When I was 15, my mum bought hifi separates, big speakers and headphones. For me, music was more important than anything else. I went through various phases in music and was a big fan of death metal, rock, grunge, experimental, noise, contemporary classical, classical, all sort of jazz, blues, dance, house, yach rock, soul. 36 years later I can't stand any obvious rythm, predictable chords and childish lyrics. Now I only tolerate - and love - listen to Western noted instrumental art music. So yes, Messiaen, Scarlatti, Beethoven, Szymanowski, Chopin, Liszt, Ligeti, Mahler, or Laurence Crane.
I don't understand those who 36 years later still like exact same music they liked when they were young. How dreadful.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I don't understand those who 36 years later still like exact same music they liked when they were young. How dreadful.

That's exactly how I see it, I had already written something similar above and got strong negative reaction and lack of understanding for this point of view.

For me it is normal that the taste refines itself in the course of the life and one develops higher requirements, not only which concerns the music, but the entire life-style. For this basic demand I also have on compositions of music I use the German expression 'Gestaltungshöhe'. I don't know how to translate it accurately into English.

 

[Liya]

That's exactly how I see it, I had already written something similar above and got strong negative reaction and lack of understanding for this point of view.

For me it is normal that the taste refines itself in the course of the life and one develops higher requirements, not only which concerns the music, but the entire life-style. For this basic demand I also have on compositions of music I use the German expression 'Gestaltungshöhe'. I don't know how to translate it accurately into English.

Absolutely. It's part of the progress.
If someone is constantly satusfied by the same - in this case - music, it tells a lot about this person. For starters: what happend to the spirit of adventure? Discovery? Pushing the boundries?