Not loving my AT740MLx

[Thomas_A]

Let me know

If I would know how to do that... Nah, I keep the Super OM as backup cartridge. I am more curious of Nagaoka JT-80 BK ; I've got an extra tonearm wand for that.

 

[dlaloum]

As a note though and it goes especially for the OM40 where both I and a friend with the same cartridge heard more high frequent noise, like static, when this cartridge/stylus was used. Nothing though on other micro ridge stylii used by AT or JICO. This was not inner groove, but something to do with the stylus friction being high or poor polishing. Above track 2=OM40, track 3=OM10.

From memory wasn't the OM40 a fritz geiger cut? - EDIT: ahh you mentioned it a couple of posts later

 

[Thomas_A]

From memory wasn't the OM40 a fritz geiger cut? - EDIT: ahh you mentioned it a couple of posts later

Yes. I have a picture of it in the database thread.

 

[Thomas_A]

Yes. I have a picture of it in the database thread.

You can see the flat surface grinded showing the typical FG cut. The original van den Hul was polished to smoothness, at least at the front and sides as I understand.

 

[Wiredforsound]

I did a listen to my old files myself; and although I don't have the answers saved (long forgotten), it is quite easy to pick them. The Shure has a bit less treble, the OM40 has more HF noise, and the OM10 sounds similar to the OM40 but with less HF noise. This noise was one reason I don't recommend the OM40, but rather OM30...

There is your reason.
Om40 verses OM30

What's the difference between the two?


Try VTA and cartridge tracking force.
Manufacturers specs are marketing nonsense, most of the time.
Track it at the top of the spec.

Sibilance after correct capacitive loading try, VTA tracking force.
Don't know what your Macintosh phono stage has to offer for capacitive load changing.
Most plebs that can't afford a Macintosh use rca-y connector and capacitors with a capacitive meter.

Adjust these after getting to a point, you can use your anti-skate as a balance and tone control.

 

[Wiredforsound]

This is a Stanton 681se hyper elliptical from late 1970's original.

 

[Thomas_A]

There is your reason.
Om40 verses OM30

What's the difference between the two?


Try VTA and cartridge tracking force.
Manufacturers specs are marketing nonsense, most of the time.
Track it at the top of the spec.

Sibilance after correct capacitive loading try, VTA tracking force.
Don't know what your Macintosh phono stage has to offer for capacitive load changing.
Most plebs that can't afford a Macintosh use rca-y connector and capacitors with a capacitive meter.

Adjust these after getting to a point, you can use your anti-skate as a balance and tone control.

I have a Muffsy phono preamp and can choose whatever capacitance and R I want.

Regarding the noise of the OM40, it's there for sure. VTA/SRA/VTF/Azimuth/antiskate, it's done. Noise is still there.

 

[Wiredforsound]

OM30 has a different Diamond cut from OM40

Read most choose the OM30 over the 40 if playing well used records.
Also need pristine cuts to get the best of the 40.

Have never tried either . Just seems like an excuse.

 

[JP]

Yes, @Thomas_A, my ears are burning.

 

[Thomas_A]

OM30 has a different Diamond cut from OM40

Read most choose the OM30 over the 40 if playing well used records.
Also need pristine cuts to get the best of the 40.

Have never tried either . Just seems like an excuse.

I have not done the tests lately with cleaned records, but a stylus cut that picks up that kind of "static" noise - I would prefer the microridge/microline since they are more quiet, at least those I've tested. If using the OM/Super OM I would still suggest the OM30 with its fine polished diamond. I used to have that one when I had the Thorens TD166. Hoping that @JP are putting them in the test bench soon. Since they are classics and still sold new, they are of interest for potential byers.

 

[Wiredforsound]

Shure used to always do that with their cartridges too ...

Although from memory they specifically advised that removing the ground connection to the body was unlikely to cause issues and was recommended for fixing ground loops...

Recommend removing this strap when using balanced interconnects for turntable.

 

[Thomas_A]

Yes, @Thomas_A, my ears are burning.

A fire extinguisher nearby?

 

[Wiredforsound]

I have not done the tests lately with cleaned records, but a stylus cut that picks up that kind of "static" noise - I would prefer the microridge/microline since they are more quiet, at least those I've tested. If using the OM/Super OM I would still suggest the OM30 with its fine polished diamond. I used to have that one when I had the Thorens TD166. Hoping that @JP are putting them in the test bench soon. Since they are classics and still sold new, they are of interest for potential byers.

Shure microridge stylus types, only familiar with the V15 VMR and V15 VxMR they are both microridge and possibly the best tracking cartridge ever produced. They are very forgiving of the record flaws.

 

[Thomas_A]

Shure microridge stylus types, only familiar with the V15 VMR and V15 VxMR they are both microridge and possibly the best tracking cartridge ever produced. They are very forgiving of the record flaws.

Yes they are. And long gone as new. One important thing was also keeping resonance out of the audio band (light cantilevers). Resonance around 8-16 kHz that many MM cartridges have seems to correlate with poorer crosstalk in the same frequency region. Tracing and tracking problems in the HF seems to be audibly lower if crosstalk is low. Distortion seems more controlled. Not sure yet but i might be that the Nagaoka MP-500 has a better HF crosstalk.

 

[Wiredforsound]

Yes they are. And long gone as new. One important thing was also keeping resonance out of the audio band (light cantilevers). Resonance around 8-16 kHz that many MM cartridges have seems to correlate with poorer crosstalk in the same frequency region. Tracing and tracking problems in the HF seems to be audibly lower if crosstalk is low. Distortion seems more controlled. Not sure yet but i might be that the Nagaoka MP-500 has a better HF crosstalk.

This is an interesting bit of information, related.

Comment -

"Sadly the Jico's are "porkers" by comparison to the original Technics or Shure styli... the resonance is in the 14kHz to 16kHz range, rather than where it was with the originals 32kHz for Shure and 50kHz+ for technics (depending on the model)

Which is not to say the Jico's are bad styli far from it.... I have two of them - but not on a par with the originals"

 

[Thomas_A]

Another trick is to use shorter cantllevers. I am bit uncertain but think that the OM40 makes benefit of that so that the resonance is around 25 kHz. But these have still too high crosstalk over the entire band as well as higher distortion. Perhaps shorter cantilevers comes at a cost. My last hope for a >20 kHz resonance is Nagaoka MP-500 but I am also very interested to see the JT-80 with boron cantilever.

 

[morillon]

Another trick is to use shorter cantllevers. I am bit uncertain but think that the OM40 makes benefit of that so that the resonance is around 25 kHz. But these have still too high crosstalk over the entire band as well as higher distortion. Perhaps shorter cantilevers comes at a cost. My last hope for a >20 kHz resonance is Nagaoka MP-500 but I am also very interested to see the JT-80 with boron cantilever.

for example, we observe such a shift on the at-150mlx and their boron cantilever?

 

[cgallery]

Another trick is to use shorter cantllevers. I am bit uncertain but think that the OM40 makes benefit of that so that the resonance is around 25 kHz. But these have still too high crosstalk over the entire band as well as higher distortion. Perhaps shorter cantilevers comes at a cost. My last hope for a >20 kHz resonance is Nagaoka MP-500 but I am also very interested to see the JT-80 with boron cantilever.

The ADC styli have very short cantilevers. Back in the day, they touted this as a feature which resulted in the lowest moving mass available (but never specified a #).

I wish someone would post some measurements of the Rivertone ADC styli that are made with OEM (but old stock) components.

 

[Thomas_A]

for example, we observe such a shift on the at-150mlx and their boron cantilever?

This would require a separate thread to analyze and would include stylii with very low mass/beryllium/shorter cantilevers. More measurements those cartridges.

 

[Thomas_A]

The ADC styli have very short cantilevers. Back in the day, they touted this as a feature which resulted in the lowest moving mass available (but never specified a #).

I wish someone would post some measurements of the Rivertone ADC styli that are made with OEM (but old stock) components.

Would be interesting as well.