Nord's new Value-Line Hypex NCore MP series

[john11]

Where is that suggestion? Measurements don't seem to support that, and I really doubt the difference is audible in a proper double blind test.

Thanks ! Good point. I read it somewhere during surfing around
You are correct, there probably is little difference in real life. Different components give different sound, so it may be that, different components installed by different manufacturers
I have changed caps, resistors and inductors in hardware and the sonic signature does change, but is it to your liking ?

 

[john11]

Thanks for sharing. Luckily that's an older thread, and it looks like only a handful of users are reporting issues.

The things that bothers me is that i ordered a nord value line nc502 amp and am still awaiting delivery

On the nord website colin states about his amps: " wire connections are double shrink sleeved to ensure long term reliability. We have recently moved to combine inputs directly to the buffer board eliminating long input signal paths. Buffer boards are soldered using WBT silver solder. All resistors are either 1% or 0.1% tolerance where needed in the audio feedback path. Signal capacitors are ultra quite Wima Polypropylene while power caps are long life Panasonic FR range. Binding posts are connected to buffer board with as short a length of OFC Silver plated Teflon dielectric 14AWG wire. Neotech OCC option. The connections to the binding posts are crimped and soldered to ensure ultimate contact. Our SMPS have virtually zero noise emission’s an example of how this is achieved is attention to detail each power output transistor is individually wrapped in Copper foil shielding. "

I enquired, and colin states there is an error on the website and i will not get any of this, which i am very disappointed about.
I could cancel the order but colin states there is a restocking fee, the bank charges will not be refunded, and postage will not be refunded, despite the fact that the amp has not been shipped.

Colin goes further to say : " We are passionate about our products and the way we look after you, in the highly unusual event of something going wrong. We loath the term (so called) Customer Service, we have all experienced that! What you get is to be treated as I would wish and expect to be – with directness and fairness,”.

I don't see what is fair about promising premium components, and delivering third teir ones

 

[Julf]

I have changed caps, resistors and inductors in hardware and the sonic signature does change, but is it to your liking ?

Have you verified that through measurements and/or double blind tests?

 

[Soniclife]

I enquired, and colin states there is an error on the website and i will not get any of this, which i am very disappointed about.
I could cancel the order but colin states there is a restocking fee, the bank charges will not be refunded, and postage will not be refunded, despite the fact that the amp has not been shipped.

That sounds very dodgy, classic bait and switch. If you paid by credit card they will ensure a full refund if Nord don't.

 

[john11]

The late production Quad 606mk1, which was basically the mk2 without the styling change and onwards, were excellent amps which should all 'sound' the same!' Our first dem early production 606 needed a couple of hours from cold to remove some 'grain' from the sound, which was audible and predictable and something that didn't exist in all other samples I ever heard, the amps 'coming on song' pretty much from switch-on and staying that way thereafter, which is what any amp worth its salt should do.

There was one early batch of far eastern made 909's which for whatever reason, had less than idea electrolytic caps fitted, causing noise and audible distortion I gather. There's an entire tale as regards how these caps were produced over the computer industry and so on and once this was dealt with, I've heard of no reliability or sonic issues at all! It was only the electrolytics used I believe!

The current Artera version has I believe, a slightly wider bandwidth according to one review I read. No idea if this is audible at all (I very much doubt it with most speakers), but the only criticism I could remotely make of it is that it's not a *showy* looking thing. With matching preamp, it's lovely and can drive all manner of speakers without stress (the preamp is a luxury thing at a not 'luxury' domestic price and I'd have one like a shot). My local audio salon appears to have dropped the brand, as it sat in the cubic display unit with their HiFiMan and deluxe Grado headphones, deluxe catalogues and so on and seemed totally anonymous when acres of Naim, Chord and now Accuphase is set up nearby in racks costing many hundreds per tier, none of it really any 'better' at all, but sure as heck making a statement, financially as well as visually. My photography is terrible, but spot the Artera bits in this display rack - I wish Quad had adopted the 500 series pro amps stylee, which look naughty in the flesh even switched off



View attachment 390435The Quad bus enabled balanced connections, but I also read of bypassing the bus. Quad's service dept may be helpful as they do full refurbs on old gear now, not simple repairs (a pal sent back a 34/FM4/405-2 and they really went to town on all three items, even to the point of a new memory chip in the tuner adding extra presets apparently.

Thanks ! If i bypass the bus this removes the option to use balanced connectons, is it worth it using unbalanced only

 

[somebodyelse]

The things that bothers me is that i ordered a nord value line nc502 amp and am still awaiting delivery

On the nord website colin states about his amps: " wire connections are double shrink sleeved to ensure long term reliability. We have recently moved to combine inputs directly to the buffer board eliminating long input signal paths. Buffer boards are soldered using WBT silver solder. All resistors are either 1% or 0.1% tolerance where needed in the audio feedback path. Signal capacitors are ultra quite Wima Polypropylene while power caps are long life Panasonic FR range. Binding posts are connected to buffer board with as short a length of OFC Silver plated Teflon dielectric 14AWG wire. Neotech OCC option. The connections to the binding posts are crimped and soldered to ensure ultimate contact. Our SMPS have virtually zero noise emission’s an example of how this is achieved is attention to detail each power output transistor is individually wrapped in Copper foil shielding. "

I enquired, and colin states there is an error on the website and i will not get any of this, which i am very disappointed about.

Some of that has now been removed from the nc502 page, but it remains on the rest of the Value line. I've captured the nc502, nc252 and nc52 pages at web.archive.org for reference. It looks like the product descriptions have been copy/pasted from the earlier higher end products as the new products have been added to the range, but the text hasn't been edited to remove the bits that don't apply to the lower end products. You'll see this if you look at something like the nc500 stereo model - most of the description is the same. The Value line has been through iterations of this, so still has a paragraph about the Nord One MP NCXXXMP range which is the next level up. Neither of these have a buffer board as the buffers are built into the NCxxxMP modules, as correctly stated in that paragraph. They don't have the 'Neotech OCC option' either, and I'm fairly sure the NCxxxMP line don't foil shield the output transistors.

To me it seems like lazy editing rather than an intention to deceive, but the end result is misleading for a lot of products on the Nord site. @boggit10 really needs to sort this out sharpish.

I could cancel the order but colin states there is a restocking fee, the bank charges will not be refunded, and postage will not be refunded, despite the fact that the amp has not been shipped.

Colin goes further to say : " We are passionate about our products and the way we look after you, in the highly unusual event of something going wrong. We loath the term (so called) Customer Service, we have all experienced that! What you get is to be treated as I would wish and expect to be – with directness and fairness,”.

I don't see what is fair about promising premium components, and delivering third teir ones

That certainly isn't how I would wish to be treated. I wouldn't expect to be out of pocket if I cancelled an order because I found out the manufacturer's product description was misleading, especially when the cancellation is before it's even shipped. That is entirely on the manufacturer.

 

[DSJR]

Thanks ! If i bypass the bus this removes the option to use balanced connectons, is it worth it using unbalanced only

The design 'sounds' absolutely wonderful using not-long single ended connections. The current Artera model also 'sounds' absolutely wonderful using the balanced inputs, but I have no idea how different or similar the balanced-to-single-ended circuit on the input is I'm afraid in these two models.

A message to Quad's service dept. these days should give you an answer before you take a soldering iron to it.

 

[pauldavidthomas]

I've got a 3 channel 502, 6 channel 252's and 4 channel 252's. Been running over a year. the 3 and 4 channel were second hand. None have skipped a beat. All run cool. If I were buying again from colin I would save a few pennies and buy the XLR Value line. You will NOT heard a difference between those and higher end versions - especially in a surround set up.

 

[john11]

I've got a 3 channel 502, 6 channel 252's and 4 channel 252's. Been running over a year. the 3 and 4 channel were second hand. None have skipped a beat. All run cool. If I were buying again from colin I would save a few pennies and buy the XLR Value line. You will NOT heard a difference between those and higher end versions - especially in a surround set up.

Good point. Looking at Amir's measurements the hypex, purifi and some of the topping offerings go beyond human hearing.
That's why i chose the nord value line, because it seems a waste of money to pay for the higher spec models with sounds that you are never going to hear.
I was excited when the nord value line was stated as containing quality wima and panasonics caps but when i found out it was actually all third teir components that was a bitter pill
Think i'll stick to my topping pa5 II fed from my hidz S9 that both scored very well on this site, they sound very good together
I only went for the nord because i need more power. On the amazon site the topping pa5 II is have is stated as 100 watts x 2 But when i tried the topping it was no way like that. I have it on full blast and it is just about loud enough. But the thing is i don't like running amps at full blast, the amp can produce square waves which can damage the speakers, plus the topping gets quite warm which i don't think class d's are supposed to do

 

[antcollinet]

I don't see what is fair about promising premium components, and delivering third teir ones

It's not, and under UK law that is "not as described" which is considered breach of contract. For that you would be entitled to return for a full refund.

What the law is in your jurisdiction, I don't know. As someone else pointed out, (if you really want to cancel the order) tell the vendor you will - if necessary - go for a card chargeback. They will probably back down.

 

[DSJR]

Good point. Looking at Amir's measurements the hypex, purifi and some of the topping offerings go beyond human hearing.
That's why i chose the nord value line, because it seems a waste of money to pay for the higher spec models with sounds that you are never going to hear.
I was excited when the nord value line was stated as containing quality wima and panasonics caps but when i found out it was actually all third teir components that was a bitter pill
Think i'll stick to my topping pa5 II fed from my hidz S9 that both scored very well on this site, they sound very good together
I only went for the nord because i need more power. On the amazon site the topping pa5 II is have is stated as 100 watts x 2 But when i tried the topping it was no way like that. I have it on full blast and it is just about loud enough. But the thing is i don't like running amps at full blast, the amp can produce square waves which can damage the speakers, plus the topping gets quite warm which i don't think class d's are supposed to do

Forgive me here, but are the standard components *really* 'third tier'?

 

[john11]

Forgive me here, but are the standard components *really* 'third tier'?

Yes, they use suscon caps which have a bad reputation, restorer john talks about them :

Most and Least Reliable Electrolytic Capacitors

Sort of a branch off the madness in the Apollon NC2K teardown thread: Which brands of caps have you had the most and least trouble with? I've had nothing but trouble with Illinois/IC TTA and LBA/LBB series . They seem to consistently be a problem in every single amp I encounter them in. In...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Matias]

Yes, they use suscon caps which have a bad reputation, restorer john talks about them :

Most and Least Reliable Electrolytic Capacitors

Sort of a branch off the madness in the Apollon NC2K teardown thread: Which brands of caps have you had the most and least trouble with? I've had nothing but trouble with Illinois/IC TTA and LBA/LBB series . They seem to consistently be a problem in every single amp I encounter them in. In...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Caps and their quality have been a hot topic a while ago...

Apollon Hypex NC2K Amplifier Teardown

This is a tear down of the recently reviewed Apollon NC2K monoblock amplifier. Both the owner and the company gave kind permission to do this. As you all know, the heart of these amplifiers are power supply and amp modules provided by Hypex to its OEMs. There are some optional parts however...

www.audiosciencereview.com