maty
Major Contributor
Hypex SMPS designed to the new Manley tube preamp has the very cheap Su'scon 450 V and 105 ºC. BTW, designed by Bruno Putzeys but with Su'scon too.
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Nord Three SE 1ET400A Dual Mono Teardown
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
You testing VCRs now? Awesome. What's next, 8-Tracks?
I'm gonna send in this Betamax, priority overnight collect! I just need the FedEx account number!
Black, permanent marker in the slots? Works for me, on occasion.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #84
I will delegate that to @restorer-john.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #85
Warmed up the unit for a while with as much as 220 watts and then made some thermal measurements. Here is the overall view:
The two power supplies are cruising with barely a temperature rise. What the doubling of the load would be if we had used one supply, is hard to predict.
The purifi modules were some of the hottest components but not the bottom side! It is the surface mount IC on the main board and components on the vertical daughterboard that are hottest at nearly 50 degrees C.
What was surprising is how hot the +- 15 volt regulators were running on the buffer/gain stage board. They are standard TO220 regulators with a tiny little heatsink glued to them:
They are hanging in the breeze which means in shipment could weaken the pins on the transistor/module. A larger one that is mounted to the PC Board should be used. Note that these regulators get hot regardless of power the amplifier is using.
That said, the whole thing is running quite cool despite the load I put on it. No capacitor is next to anything hot that I could see. The chassis is surprisingly cool. The high efficiency here is doing wonders to keep everything cool.
I would not worry about the reliability of the unit over time due to temperature.
The two power supplies are cruising with barely a temperature rise. What the doubling of the load would be if we had used one supply, is hard to predict.
The purifi modules were some of the hottest components but not the bottom side! It is the surface mount IC on the main board and components on the vertical daughterboard that are hottest at nearly 50 degrees C.
What was surprising is how hot the +- 15 volt regulators were running on the buffer/gain stage board. They are standard TO220 regulators with a tiny little heatsink glued to them:
They are hanging in the breeze which means in shipment could weaken the pins on the transistor/module. A larger one that is mounted to the PC Board should be used. Note that these regulators get hot regardless of power the amplifier is using.
That said, the whole thing is running quite cool despite the load I put on it. No capacitor is next to anything hot that I could see. The chassis is surprisingly cool. The high efficiency here is doing wonders to keep everything cool.
I would not worry about the reliability of the unit over time due to temperature.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Just for the record, how long is a "while" and what does "as much as 220 watts" mean exactly?
So, period, level, load R and test frequency please.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #87
I cooked it at 80 watts (both channels driven) for 5 or so minutes. Not much got warm (other than the regulators) so I then pushed it up to 220 watts for another 3 or 4 minutes and took the shot. Then got it back down to 80 watts again. I don't have a fan or temp sensor for my expensive dummy loads which are mounted in a rack and didn't want to risk damaging them.
They are rated for 300+ watts (two are used for 4 ohm) but still, I wanted to stay on the side of caution.Load was 4 ohm. Both channels driven as mentioned. This wasn't really a stress test of the amp but rather, trying to get some idea of what gets warm and what doesn't.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
So 1Khz?
I really want to see some high power, high frequency, soak testing of these amplifiers by someone. I'd do it, but I don't want to buy modules and a PSU just for curiosity, only the throw it in a box afterwards.
Just maybe, Nord may have done this. @boggit10 may be in a position to comment?
Fair enough. It might not be a bad idea to buy some inexpensive non-inductive 300W dummy loads for the pre-conditioning and switch to the high quality ones for the THD etc testing.
I really want to see some high power, high frequency, soak testing of these amplifiers by someone. I'd do it, but I don't want to buy modules and a PSU just for curiosity, only the throw it in a box afterwards.
Just maybe, Nord may have done this. @boggit10 may be in a position to comment?
I don't have a fan or temp sensor for my expensive dummy loads which are mounted in a rack and didn't want to risk damaging them.
Fair enough. It might not be a bad idea to buy some inexpensive non-inductive 300W dummy loads for the pre-conditioning and switch to the high quality ones for the THD etc testing.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #89
Ah, that is a good idea. I will put it on my TODO list.
Which is an absolutely precise description. Apollon OTOH aims at doing a bit more, and so far succeeds, but the owner is also a guy that works as a recording engineer. All iqspeakers/nord has ever done has been assembling kits.
Andy Chapman
Member
I've just examined a Nord Three SE 1ET400A Dual Mono Stereo Amp. All the SMPS1200A400 and 1ET400A module electrolytics are labelled 105DegC.
maty
Major Contributor
You are right. In another thread I corrected it. Post corrected. Thank you.
But very cheap big caps in an SMPS that costs so much!
But very cheap big caps in an SMPS that costs so much!
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Sorry, newbie posting here. Found this on Audiophonics.fr
1) No Rev D buffer thingie. Is the black board connected to the amp module one?
2) There is a toggle switch between XML and SE input. Not seen on Nord/Appolon
3) At least the heat sink is attached to the aluminium part of the hypex SMSP1200A400 power module. I think this is suppose to be heatsink.
4) This one has ventilation holes - top and I think bottom.
An Italian company ATM audio also has a case/amp scheduled for this. No internal views but the case looks beautiful but has no ventilation holes and those holes on the sides will be damn difficult to clean! LOL.
1) No Rev D buffer thingie. Is the black board connected to the amp module one?
2) There is a toggle switch between XML and SE input. Not seen on Nord/Appolon
3) At least the heat sink is attached to the aluminium part of the hypex SMSP1200A400 power module. I think this is suppose to be heatsink.
4) This one has ventilation holes - top and I think bottom.
An Italian company ATM audio also has a case/amp scheduled for this. No internal views but the case looks beautiful but has no ventilation holes and those holes on the sides will be damn difficult to clean! LOL.
Attachments
Hi,
1. The amp modules are green, the black is the buffer board. Nord calls their buffers with "revision" letters, D their latest which accepts the large opamps.
2. Apollon has XLR/RCA switch as an optional.
3. True.
4. Apollon case (MOTU) also has ventilation holes, I think Nord too. Anyway the Purifi modules barely get warm and there is all this chassis to dissipate, I wouldn't worry about it.
AudioSceptic
Major Contributor
The Audiophonics Purifi looks just "right" to me. Thanks for that.
C. Cook
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2021
- Messages
- 366
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- 185
Rather than starting a new thread, I'm piggybacking onto this existing one. Here's my teardown of a similar Nord product (Nord Three Int-C Integrated Amp) without any custom buffers. A couple of items I'll note in addition to your useful captions from 2019.
* There is no heatsinking going on above and beyond whatever screwing the bottom plate of the modules directly to the bottom inside surface of the chassis confers. In my VTV teardown thread that became a point of contention, yet from Apollon's website, the teardown of the OP and my own with pics below, nobody else is doing much either as far as heat sinking goes. I'd be surprised if Nord has any more detailed information on the heat transfer properties of their cases than Ghent has. Nevertheless, nobody seems to be making a big deal out of it. I didn't unscrew any of the components from the bottom, so it's possible (but IMO unlikely) that there is any compound between the module and case.
The fins in the outside of the cabinet (very nice design, BTW) couldn't be doing much for heat sinking. They appear to be mainly cosmetic with perhaps a very minor role in dissipating heat. There is certainly nothing bolted directly to them on the inside.
* Similar build techniques to the OP's amp. However there seems to be no double sided tape and the power button leads are routed around the amplifier modules in a manner that indicates they took the OP's review to heart. It's probably not possible to completely avoid running them above every square cm of the boards, but they've done about as good as it looks possible without resorting to much longer wires and routing them around the sides of the case.
They also have reversed the placement of the buffers and modules from the teardown that Amir did on the Nord One with Hypex nc1200s in 2019. The buffers in this case are in the proper location!
Since I opted for 'stock' configuration here, there's no aftermarket regulators or op-amps and thus everything is soldered to the boards as it should be.
Regardless, this is a level up in terms of construction from the VTV I posted the day before yesterday.
* Mains cable seems a bit thin, IMO. Looks like no larger than 14 or 16 gauge. Perhaps even 18? I'll look more closely after posting and edit if I find anything definite.
* Unfortunately no XLR inputs or balanced signal path.
* Again, very nice case design. I wish the LED volume indicator could be switched to blue (to match the power button halo) or even amber (which is the "it" color du-jour), but I'm used to that red color b/c my old Krell integrated workhorse had probably the exact same LED with the exact same color.
* Finally, the sound is VERY good in my smaller office system paired with a Topping D90 (MQA version, but I don't use MQA) and a pair of Buchardt Audio S400 mkIIs. Wiring is whatever I had laying around, I think Audioquest's old staple speaker wires that I got for free in purchasing the Krell and some Bluejeans Cables RCA connectors. Also using a standard run of the mill optical cable for connecting it to an Oppo BDP-93. For SACDs I have the Oppo connected directly to a different RCA input of the amp since SACD is a proprietary codec and SACD players don't pass the full DSD SACD signal in bit form to any external/secondary audio components.
Test tracks I have used include Echo and the Bunnymen "Lips Like Sugar", Foreigner's "I Want to Know What Love Is" and a variety of jazz with complex arrangements. This amp does exceedingly well with all of them.
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