Nord One NC1200DM Signature Stereo Amp Review

[digitalfrost]

If amplifiers had clipping lights, it would be no problem. Then you'd know. The audiophilia nervosa comes from not knowing whether the power is enough. People tell all kinds of stories about transients, but if you look at the waveforms of modern music, there is very little dynamic range indeed.

Above 100W, amp prices start to climb fast. IMHO, if you need more than 200W/8ohms you have the wrong speakers. Given the logarithmic nature in speaker sensitivity, the money would be much better spent on speakers that are loud enough by themselves, instead of very powerful amplifiers.

Also, the most power would surely be required in the bass. I've designed a couple of speakers and subwoofers. Show me a woofer that can take even 100W in the bass region. Sure they exist, but these are already beefy speakers. And that usually means they already play rather loud at 1W.

Of course, everybodys impression of volume is different. I mostly listen at 78-86dBC, when I'm really pushing I might reach 100dB. More than enough for me. I also listen at close distance. I reach 10W into my speakers on occasion, most of the time I need 1W when listening 'loud'. So I can see how you'd end up at 100W if you sit farther away. But if you really are a volume junkie, there are speakers for that. Horns for example. Also, by using multiple subwoofers, you can easily gain headroom where it's most needed and you add (multiple) amplifier power.

Sure that's an expensive solution, but I'd prefer it. That said, I like amplifiers that have enough power so that you could run other amplifiers with them, given a 50hz sine wave input signal...

 

[Thomas savage]

Really? I agree with some of the other posters. This sort of "option" reduces my opinion of Nord. My Mr. Spock eyebrow is on full 100% raised mode when I see this sort of thing from a (supposedly) reputable manufacturer.

Dave.

Yea really , believe it or not recognising your market and offering options that cater to it are quite sensible ideas for a company like Nord.

I don't see them as a manufacturer, they are a assembly company. Added value is the core of their business imo.. that can be a nice box , customer support , different buffers .. fuses the list goes on.

If you don't feel the options add value you can have a basic product or build your own and cut Nord out completely .

 

[RichB]

It is actually their blue series. I was told they cost $150 each! That's what makes them directional. Money comes out of your pocket and lands in theirs, and not the other way around....

It would be interesting to test with a standard ceramic fuse.

- Rich

 

[thefsb]

Audiophiles routinely underestimate how much power they need.

Then we need a protocol to estimate how much power an audiophile needs. Or at least a protocol to identify a case of such underestimation. The routine itself, if adequately characterized, might well provide a useful guide.

 

[RichB]

Then we need a protocol to estimate how much power an audiophile needs. Or at least a protocol to identify a case of such underestimation. The routine itself, if adequately characterized, might well provide a useful guide.

Some over-estimate other under-estimate. My predilections align with @digitalfrost.
I am still bi-amping an not bridging the AHB2's driving the Salon2s. These amps have clipping indicators and I am not clipping them in my use.
I'll bet I could clip a kilowatt but I have no desire to do so.

My method for estimating was to measure 2.83 volts at the speakers with several tones at my listening position.
Since the Salon2's are basically 4 ohms speakers, that provided this baseline -31 on my processor uses 2 watts to deliver 83 dB at my listening position. From that, it is a simple matter to plug those values into a spread-sheet and add notations for the processor level and your preferences.

IMO all amps should have per-channel clipping indicators. I don't think that is much to ask for product costing thousands.

- Rich

 

[amirm]

Seen some measurements of class d amps that revealed a phase shift over the frequency spectrum. Not sure how to measure this for an amp but sure curious if this is the case here. Can you check for this?

I don't have this unit anymore but when I tested the NC400, I ran that measurement:

It is a bit of a pain to run as the AP has no way of measure phase shift relative to input. It can only measure one channel versus another so above takes a special setup.

 

[Labjr]

Yea really , believe it or not recognising your market and offering options that cater to it are quite sensible ideas for a company like Nord.

I don't see them as a manufacturer, they are a assembly company. Added value is the core of their business imo.. that can be a nice box , customer support , different buffers .. fuses the list goes on.

If you don't feel the options add value you can have a basic product or build your own and cut Nord out completely .

I thought Class D amps were supposed to be the antithesis of expensive high-end audiophile gear? $160 fuse doesn't add any value. Just adds cost.

 

[Casey Leedom]

By the way, Bruno Putzeys has addressed the Phase Shift question in a recent Questions & Answers — the actual Q&A with Bruno and Lars Risbo of Purifi starts a fair distance in and I recommend people skip to that. I'm not 100% certain how much I can quote without risking copyright issues, so just search for "phase". The short summary is that he claims that the phase shift is linear in frequency and is thus equivalent to a simple delay. He says "What that matters to sound is how much phase shift differs from a pure delay."

I haven't done the math and graphing to convince myself, but I thought his comments were relevant to this portion of the conversation.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I don't have this unit anymore but when I tested the NC400, I ran that measurement:

It is a bit of a pain to run as the AP has no way of measure phase shift relative to input. It can only measure one channel versus another so above takes a special setup.

I think labeling graphs like that is confusing for many members. (Especially guys like maty.)
Group delay vice actual phase-shift can appear similar.

Dave.

 

[Matias]

We have a dedicated phase shift thread where this has been discussed a lot, please keep things there and not repeat again.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/phase-shift.9602/

 

[Bear123]

I wonder if there exist a hypex based 100 W amp with the same fantastic measurements in the more affordable $1000 to $1500?

Under $800.
https://www.diyclassd.com/product/nc400-mono-kit-complete-kit/24

 

[Casey Leedom]

Sorry!

 

[Bear123]

Unless you need the power the NC400 DIY kit still seems to be the best bang for buck of all amplifiers in the top tier.

I think Nords 3 channel based on the NC500 is a better deal unless you only need two channels. Price is quite a bit lower than three Chanels of NC400, and more power...whether you need the extra power or not, its priced better and, although doesn't technically measure as well, isn't it sonically indistinguishable? If the NC500 produces completely inaudible distortion in real life, does it make sense to pay more for less distortion? Honest question. Three of the NC400 DIY kits would be around $2500, Nord's 3 channel NC500 a little under $1700.

 

[Wombat]

Nord are in a funny position, some will dismiss them simply because they are not expensive enough. Ironically some of you cheap bastards think they are too expensive lol

They want to sell Amps so choices / customisable options are good.

Please let's not start bashing them for these ' audiophile' options , they would be stupid not to offer it.

No need to 'bash' them.

ASR should point out the marketing nonsense attached to review items, in keeping with its raison d'etre.

 

[veeceem]

By the way, Bruno Putzeys has addressed the Phase Shift question in a recent Questions & Answers — the actual Q&A with Bruno and Lars Risbo of Purifi starts a fair distance in and I recommend people skip to that. I'm not 100% certain how much I can quote without risking copyright issues, so just search for "phase". The short summary is that he claims that the phase shift is linear in frequency and is thus equivalent to a simple delay. He says "What that matters to sound is how much phase shift differs from a pure delay."

I haven't done the math and graphing to convince myself, but I thought his comments were relevant to this portion of the conversation.

No tech-knowledge, but from reading Bruno's words, he states phase shift as:
- A delay of time music is played, no sound quality lost.
- There never was a phase shift problem in class D
- Bruno was asked if he pulls his hair out trying to design something better than Ncore and he grew beard to compensate.
Am I reading and understanding it correctly here?

 

[Wombat]

Sorry!

No need to apologise. The Nord is class D and the phase shift performance and its measurement is relevant.

FWIW your link would be useful for discussion in the other related thread.

 

[TomJ]

1632 is better

http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/pro.../990Enh_Ticha_Docs/990Enh_Ticha_Datasheet.pdf
$69 each 2 required

http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/opa1632

$3.60 each

However its not that simple as looking at the chip specs. Other factors come into play, board layout, supporting component choices (cap dielectric), wiring hygiene etc, on how close you get to the data sheet performance.

Thanks! Is the 1632 the op amp in the Bel Canto REF600M?

 

[anmpr1]

While I have a very large space, my amplifier produces 500 watts into 8 ohm and 1000 watts into 4. With my Revel Salon 2 speakers, I have on occasion pushed the volume to max.

This is one reason I don't have Revel (or some other similar) speakers. Because of the need for amplification. I considered them, but would have had to buy another amp, and bridge the two. And I still might not have the necessary power. Sometimes I shake my head when I read about 1000 watt McIntosh monophonic amps, but if you have certain speakers in a certain listening room, then you might need the power. So it makes some sense. Whether it makes economic sense depends upon one's checkbook. Or the second mortgage.

 

[RDaneel2]

I think it would be good - for those who don't bother to go and read Nord's site for themselves - to mention that this review was on the "no sonic stone un-turned" Signature model. Nord caters to both customers looking for high performance and quality - but at somewhat more affordable price points - as well as those who either want some of the pricier options because they believe they will get a superior listening experience... or just want "the best", and are happy (or even insist on) paying the higher price.

Nord offers the base level of dual-mono NC1200 -based product, starting without a buffer board (which just means using the built-in capability of the Hypex module), and then allows one to add any desired features... and start driving the cost up, of course.

For someone trying to run a business, it certainly seems to make sense to cater to multiple clienteles, from those who only wish to pay for the "sensible" features to those who feel that all of the add-on goodies are something worth paying for.

 

[g29]

Looks like the NC400 edges out the NC1200 @ 4Ohms within its operating power range, moreso after 5 watts.

@amirm , Is it possible to get an overlay of the NC1200 and NC400 plots on the same scale (percent or decimal) ?

Any ideas on how a pair of bridged NC400's would fair ?