• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Noob tutorial DIRAC computer + DAC for 2.1/2.2 setup

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
Dear forum members,

Since I've moved my MiniDSP flex to the living room (where DIRAC was very needed) I'm rebuilding my dedicated listening room.
Gear that I currently use:

Source + DAC: Bluesound Node 2
Amplifiers: Ghent Audio nCore NC252MP (speakers) + Ghen Audio nCore NC500MP (subwoofer), all XLR input.
Speakers: KEF R3 + Custom Build Subwoofer (10" push/pull).

What would I like to do?
Replace the Bluesound Node 2 for a PC with DIRAC live (with option for 1 or 2 subwoofers).
Thuis, no DIRAC live stereo, but DIRAC live for 2.1/2.2 setup (ie like the NAD C658).

My question is:
1. Is there a DIRAC live 2.2 computer setup (https://www.dirac.com/online-store/dirac-live-room-correction-suite/ seems to offer much, but no multi-sub for PC except w/ bass control).
2. What would I need to do this: computer + DAC (what kind of DAC?).
3. Is this relatively easy to do or would you recommend buying a NAD C658 or some other kind of streamer.
I'm a fan of the C658 (used to own it, sold it to a relative) but I don't like the issues with the low voltage sub output of the C658.
4. Any suggestions for an alternative? I already have Bluesound Node 2, so another miniDSP flex could be an option.

Best regards,

Geert
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
Dear forum members,

Since I've moved my MiniDSP flex to the living room (where DIRAC was very needed) I'm rebuilding my dedicated listening room.
Gear that I currently use:

Source + DAC: Bluesound Node 2
Amplifiers: Ghent Audio nCore NC252MP (speakers) + Ghen Audio nCore NC500MP (subwoofer), all XLR input.
Speakers: KEF R3 + Custom Build Subwoofer (10" push/pull).

What would I like to do?
Replace the Bluesound Node 2 for a PC with DIRAC live (with option for 1 or 2 subwoofers).
Thuis, no DIRAC live stereo, but DIRAC live for 2.1/2.2 setup (ie like the NAD C658).

My question is:
1. Is there a DIRAC live 2.2 computer setup (https://www.dirac.com/online-store/dirac-live-room-correction-suite/ seems to offer much, but no multi-sub for PC).
2. What would I need to do this: computer + DAC (what kind of DAC?).
3. Is this relatively easy to do or would you recommend buying a NAD C658 or some other kind of streamer.
I'm a fan of the C658 (used to own it, sold it to a relative) but I don't like the issues with the low voltage sub output of the C658.
4. Any suggestions for an alternative?

Best regards,

Geert

1. Yes there is DLBC available for PC too if you need 1 or more subwoofers: https://www.dirac.com/online-store/dirac-live-room-correction-suite/ (scroll down)
2. Preferably a low-noise/zero noise PC with a multichannel DAC for example MOTU M4 or MOTU Ultralite or Topping DM7 (which AFAIK is the best multichannel DAC available on the market, I used to own one too, stellar sound quality)
3. There is a learning curve but the sound quality will be much better vs with any NAD product (or other commercially available 'high-end' brand)
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
1. Yes there is DLBC available for PC too if you need 1 or more subwoofers: https://www.dirac.com/online-store/dirac-live-room-correction-suite/ (scroll down)
2. Preferably a low-noise/zero noise PC with a multichannel DAC for example MOTU M4 or MOTU Ultralite or Topping DM7 (which AFAIK is the best multichannel DAC available on the market, I used to own one too, stellar sound quality)
3. There is a learning curve but the sound quality will be much better vs with any NAD product (or other commercially available 'high-end' brand)
1. Yes, but DLBC for PC is a 850 USD investment if I understand correctly. That's serious money.
2. If I were to use USB tot either MOTU M4 or Topping DM7, I can specify with DLBC for each channel what it is (sub or speaker)?
3. Why would that be? Just the quality of the DAC?

Thanks
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
1. Yes, but DLBC for PC is a 850 USD investment if I understand correctly. That's serious money.
730 USD (if you need stereo + subs) and 850 USD if you need multichannel (=home cinema) + subs

2. If I were to use USB tot either MOTU M4 or Topping DM7, I can specify with DLBC for each channel what it is (sub or speaker)?
Yes, exactly (up to 4 individual subs AFAIK)


3. Why would that be? Just the quality of the DAC?
Yes, just compare the measurements of the NAD with the DM7
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
730 USD (if you need stereo + subs) and 850 USD if you need multichannel (=home cinema) + subs


Yes, exactly (up to 4 individual subs AFAIK)



Yes, just compare the measurements of the NAD with the DM7
1. Thanks, that seems reasonable (250 USD Motu M4 + 730 USD license).
2. Can you inplement a low pass / high pass filter on the MOTU M4 or does DLBC set the crossover? I'm confused when reading the MOTU M4 manuals. It's only a DAC right? The reason I'm asking is that although I know DIRAC well, I don't have any DLBC experience. Does the DLBC set the crossovers (so no DSP whatsoever before/after DIRAC)?
3. I don't know if I can hear all those measure differences.

Thanks,

Geert
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
2. Can you inplement a low pass / high pass filter on the MOTU M4 or does DLBC set the crossover? I'm confused when reading the MOTU M4 manuals. It's only a DAC right? The reason I'm asking is that although I know DIRAC well, I don't have any DLBC experience. Does the DLBC set the crossovers (so no DSP whatsoever before/after DIRAC)?
DLBC controls everything, including the (modifiable) crossover

I suggest going through this: https://confluence.dirac.services/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=217692316 and this https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Bass+Control:+Filter+Design
And some other articles you find on the same page
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
Another question: I've orderd the Motu M4 and will order DLBC later.
Can I use any windows software to implement a crossover (80 Hz, 12dB/oct) for the subwoofer + spakers (LP/HP respectively) in the mean time?
What software can I use for that?

Thanks,

Geert
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
Another question: I've orderd the Motu M4 and will order DLBC later.
Can I use any windows software to implement a crossover (80 Hz, 12dB/oct) for the subwoofer + spakers (LP/HP respectively) in the mean time?
What software can I use for that?

Thanks,

Geert
Yes you can, I would strongly recommend Jriver
It is a player that plays audio and video, supports ASIO, supports VST plugins and supports multichannel - all in one
You can do channel routing, LPF/HPF, delay, convolution, PEQ, and much more - fully fledged DSP solution (much much better and comprehensive than any AVR or miniDSP stuff)
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
One more thing: in Jriver you can enable the WDM driver that will create a sound device in Windows that will basically route all Windows sounds through the DSP engine of Jriver
With that you will have a systemwide DSP solution (so you can enjoy Youtube, Tidal, etc. also, not just the files you play in Jriver...)
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
Does anyony know of a great tutorial for Jriver/rePhase/REW for 2.1 integration?
I would like to correct from 30 - 300 Hz, nothing more.
Best regards
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
Well never mind, I just found out the volume knob of the Muto M4 only controle channel 1 and 2 (or 3 and 4).
I really want to have a 'hard' safety to not blow up my speakers, so I'm sending it all back :-*(
 

ppataki

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,216
Likes
1,356
Location
Budapest
Well never mind, I just found out the volume knob of the Muto M4 only controle channel 1 and 2 (or 3 and 4).
I really want to have a 'hard' safety to not blow up my speakers, so I'm sending it all back :-*(
I control volume in Jriver using its 64-bit volume control. That is the highest possible quality volume control out there. And it has a Volume Protection feature as well to protect from accidental volume changes.

Apart from the highest possible quality, this ensures that volume control is first in the signal chain, avoiding any possibility of digital clipping

I would strongly recommend trying this
(if you have physical volume control on your keyboard those will actually control Jriver's volume)
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
What I'm a bit scard of is this: I will use my laptop, which I also use for other stuff. I'm affraid if I I plug my laptop in, something will be off.
I assume you use a dedicated computer to do all this?
 

ZolaIII

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,069
Likes
2,409
I control volume in Jriver using its 64-bit volume control. That is the highest possible quality volume control out there. And it has a Volume Protection feature as well to protect from accidental volume changes.

Apart from the highest possible quality, this ensures that volume control is first in the signal chain, avoiding any possibility of digital clipping

I would strongly recommend trying this
(if you have physical volume control on your keyboard those will actually control Jriver's volume)
You really really don't need Dirac, REW will do just fine. Try to use loudness (equal loudness ISO 226 2003 after doing a calibration without it to suggested 83 dB mono white noise point) as you already use internal JRiver volume controls. Also use EBU R128 normalisation (works for audio files you own as he needs to analyse them) and in that case do analysis of created (exported) white noise file with R128 enabled before doing calibration. If the level hit by R128 is too much hit on your power amplifier you can add gain to level it back to 0 dB level (measuring difrece on calibration file with/without R128 in dB) in for example parametric filter section. More than cuple of remote controllers in form of app for JRiver.
Examples; JRiver Loudness
1574203824523.jpeg
,
JRemote 2 app
Screenshot_20230425-223026.png
,
Part of R128 metadata written to tag
Screenshot_20230429-000125.png
.
 
OP
G

Geertidow

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
181
Likes
56
I will mostly use spotify and CDs (+ a few bandcamp files).
So I think the EBU is not really necessary.
I was planning on starting with REW / JRiver first before purchasing DIRAC.
Upside is that the volume control on the 1rst / 2nd channel is for the main speakers (the most expensive). I think the sub might actually survive a 100% signal (hopefully I will never find out).
 

ZolaIII

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,069
Likes
2,409
I will mostly use spotify and CDs (+ a few bandcamp files).
So I think the EBU is not really necessary.
I was planning on starting with REW / JRiver first before purchasing DIRAC.
Upside is that the volume control on the 1rst / 2nd channel is for the main speakers (the most expensive). I think the sub might actually survive a 100% signal (hopefully I will never find out).
Didn't quite understand you there. Volume for L/R speaker? If you have balance control on preamp or power amp you can use that or in JRiver or similar player one's which have them. In the end you can physically unplug it but no need to pay for that.
You can try with REW - EQ-APO (if it's Windows PC/laptop) for free and better integration - direct EQ export to EQ-APO. It even also has loudness control's. I don't know how good will EQ-APO be with DRM sources (which won't alow it's insertation). Didn't even try that with JRiver WDM driver (mostly use my own file server) but believe that one will work. All the streaming services use or have option to use normalisation but implementations all do based on EBU R128 differ from - 14 to - 18 LUFS (to R128's - 23 LUFS) so half way there and not enough on some materials ( mostly from 90's peak loudness war era but even today's "club mixes").
 
Top Bottom