No portable Dacs / Headphone Amps for Airplay?

[Jeromeof]

So you're saying that you can distinguish between BT and wired (or anything higher that BT) while cycling hence have your effort and attention directed on the road? I'm skeptical.

Yes, this sounds very very dubious - I think it would be hard even in a quiet room to tell the difference between the latest bluetooth (not the old crappy bluetooth which was/is crap) and airplay2. Technically we know there is a difference but Apple 256Kbps (for normal Apple Music) is very close to CD quality and ripped music over bluetooth would be even higher and when cycling / running the extra noise would make it impossible IMO to tell the difference.

I believe bluetooth 5 is 2mpbs in "ideal" condition - but in theory cycling might be ideal conditions as not ideal is when you are surrounded by other bluetooth devices, on the open road you would mostly be clear of other bluetooth signals.

 

[Electrostatftw]

For Bluetooth, Sony LDAC codec is awefully close to wire. I use a wm1a with a SPC wire to thieaudio monarchs, almost no difference in sound quality if i use ldac from WM1a to to an ifi go blu and output via 4.4mm bal cable.

 

[Fofocho]

I second the OP wish. Since we are limited to AAC in the iphones, Airplay would be a good alternative to LDAC, which we lack

 

[Jeromeof]

Seems like the rumour is Apple has already added something like this to the usb-c AirPods Pro (but only to work with the new VisionPro headset) - it basically passes the raw audio stream between the 2 devices (i.e. when asked what codec they said there was no codec used to re-encode the audio) - it might be something like Airplay over UWB (ultra wide band) chipset.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Seems like the rumour is Apple has already added something like this to the usb-c AirPods Pro (but only to work with the new VisionPro headset) - it basically passes the raw audio stream between the 2 devices (i.e. when asked what codec they said there was no codec used to re-encode the audio) - it might be something like Airplay over UWB (ultra wide band) chipset.

Based on tests I have seen recently, when used in a full Airplay2 chain, Airplay only streams 256kbs AAC anyway.

The new iPhone 15 finally supports usb-c which will provide better device support.

Stop fighting the Apple ecosystem with its enforced limitations from those who know better and ditch the iPhone for audiophile use.

Grab an android phone, or DAP, with a good DAC and HP amp, or LDAC support for near lossless wireless support.

For portable use I use a cheap Xiaomi phone with a Qudelix 5K over USB-C and LDAC Bluetooth.

And yes, I do hate Apple devices, but do have an Apple TV 4K 2022 128Gb as my main video streamer (Chromecast with Google TV was too unreliable with the unofficial ethernet adapter I tried using, no official adapter is available here) and a couple of iPads for the kids (cheap android tablets are crap)

 

[Fofocho]

Based on tests I have seen recently, when used in a full Airplay2 chain, Airplay only streams 256kbs AAC anyway.

The new iPhone 15 finally supports usb-c which will provide better device support.

Stop fighting the Apple ecosystem with its enforced limitations from those who know better and ditch the iPhone for audiophile use.

Grab an android phone, or DAP, with a good DAC and HP amp, or LDAC support for near lossless wireless support.

For portable use I use a cheap Xiaomi phone with a Qudelix 5K over USB-C and LDAC Bluetooth.

I have been considering that, buying a second phone (android) but I would feel kind of stupid having a superfast super expensive iPhone 14 pro and carrying a cheap phone just for music

 

[Jeromeof]

I actually just bought one of the moondrop freedsp “cables” for my new iPhone ( usbc cable with built in peq) - will probably do up a little post when I get it setup. Seems like a nice solution for those who don’t want Bluetooth or a qudelik 5k but want some iPhone system wide dsp.

 

[pseudoid]

Is this "iffy" for your needs?
iFi Audio GO Blu Portable Bluetooth DAC/Amp (Regular price $199)
• Whatever the source device – Android, iOS, PC or Mac – GO blu delivers maximum sound quality over Bluetooth
• Advanced Bluetooth module with QCC5100 handles every HD format
• Supported codecs include: aptX, aptX HD, aptX LL, aptX Adaptive, LDAC, HWA/LHDC, AAC, SBC
From <https://headphones.com/products/ifi-audio-go-blu-portable-bluetooth-dac-amp>

Or you can always go for the portable JDSLabs Cmoy for the headphone amp section:

Have you searched aliexpress lately?

 

[bargainguy]

The Chord Mojo + Poly would fill all your needs without changing ecosystems. Not cheap, but hey, what is these days?

Chord Poly review

A compact streaming accessory for Chord's superb Mojo

www.whathifi.com

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I have been considering that, buying a second phone (android) but I would feel kind of stupid having a superfast super expensive iPhone 14 pro and carrying a cheap phone just for music

Yes, having two phones or a separate DAP would be a bad outcome.
The simple solution is to sell the iPhone.

My phone is the Poco F2 Pro.
The latest version is the US $500 F5 Pro which I would rather have over an iPhone regardless of price and has near enough the same performance.
Three years in my F2 is still performing very well and doing everything I need so I'm hanging onto it for a bit longer.

Compare Xiaomi Poco F5 Pro vs. Apple iPhone 14 Pro - GSMArena.com

m.gsmarena.com

 

[Fofocho]

I don’t want to switch to Android just for LDAC

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I don’t want to switch to Android just for LDAC

I wasn't expecting you to. I was just pointing out that your "superfast super expensive" iPhone is only super expensive.
I understand that iPhones are popular, I just don't understand why.

Anyway, back to the topic
As much as I strive for lossless audio, I doubt I could hear the difference between it and Apple's very good AAC codec in most situations.

 

[Fofocho]

I will not enter in a discussion of iPhone vs The rest of the world

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Yep, I get that and am not expecting to change anyone's mind.
I do still want to understand, but agree that this is not the forum for that discussion - except where it relates to audio.

The point is to that you shouldn't fight the limitations imposed on your device by its designers, you won't win.

Airplay 2 is 256kbps AAC, Apple Bluetooth is 256Kbps AAC.
The only other option is what you are already doing using a lightning connected dongle/DAC.

Airplay 2 - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

 

[Fofocho]

To be honest, I do not find a huge difference between LDAC (Lenovo tablet) and AAC (iPhone). I do not find huge differences either between AAC and USB-DAC. They are VERY subtle, but I like always to get the most

The good thing about Apple is that they manage AAC very well. AAC on Android sounds horrible, as Android always try to apply hardware brute force instead of optimizing things to be more efficient

 

[FreakyKiwi]

To be honest, I do not find a huge difference between LDAC (Lenovo tablet) and AAC (iPhone). I do not find huge differences either between AAC and USB-DAC. They are VERY subtle, but I like always to get the most

The good thing about Apple is that they manage AAC very well. AAC on Android sounds horrible, as Android always try to apply hardware brute force instead of optimizing things to be more efficient

It's actually the opposite, Apple have hardware dedicated to AAC encoding while android relies on a software solution.
The upshot being that Apple AAC sounds great.

Part II: Comparison of Bluetooth Fidelity - AAC encoder quality (Android 10 & 13, Windows 11, Apple iPhones & Mac)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

"The quality we see using the iPhones with AAC 256kbps is better than aptX-HD previously tested and at least equivalent to the higher bitrate LDAC >900kbps on Android. There's certainly something to be said about Apple focusing on a single standard and doing it well!"

 

[Fofocho]

So conclusion is that Apple AAC is far superior to Android AAC and even to Android APTX-HD, and equivalent to Android LDAC. Interesting:

Summary:​

Bravo Apple for getting AAC encoding quality done right on the iPhones. My assumption is that the iPhone is using hardware-assisted encoding to achieve this.

The quality we see using the iPhones with AAC 256kbps is better than aptX-HD previously tested and at least equivalent to the higher bitrate LDAC >900kbps on Android. There's certainly something to be said about Apple focusing on a single standard and doing it well!

 

[ZolaIII]

So conclusion is that Apple AAC is far superior to Android AAC and even to Android APTX-HD, and equivalent to Android LDAC. Interesting:

Summary:​

Bravo Apple for getting AAC encoding quality done right on the iPhones. My assumption is that the iPhone is using hardware-assisted encoding to achieve this.

The quality we see using the iPhones with AAC 256kbps is better than aptX-HD previously tested and at least equivalent to the higher bitrate LDAC >900kbps on Android. There's certainly something to be said about Apple focusing on a single standard and doing it well!

Not even remotely... AAC HE V2 is property codec and far from low latency and low complexity. So never really intended for BT in the first place. While it's not a bad lossy codec it's far cry from best up to date implementations and front end and royalty free are the future all together. The Opus is better (considerably on medium bit rate's) and now has proper packet headers for TS and multichannel the real question is why would you even use lossy codec on such bit rate's in first place? That is as there are lossless alternatives which can preserve about 20 bit over audible range (20 Hz ~20 KHz shewing off what you can't and standard compression) with such bandwidth (900/1000 kbps) and be lower latency.
Most ASIC's implementations that I know of are rather limited and not convenient in the era of cheap 64 bit FP on general purpose cores (ARM A series). The ultra low power is still reserved for 32 bit including FP which is more than enough for audio decoding with very low lag (ARM M series). Simple frameworks and players built around them or using it makes for most popular and OS agnostic player's cetera. For example FFMPEG and VLC. OEM's aren't really trying enough when it comes to meaningful low latency wireless audio transmission so as it is you are better off with WiFi DLNA lossless stereo and for not latency sensitive tasks.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Thanks, I don't know much about it but the article I found and linked looked like reasonable comparitive testing had been completed.

On your point, an idea I had for OP which I never posted was to use a battery powered raspberry Pi Zero 2w, or similar SBC, setup as a DLNA/Airplay/Spotify/Tidal/Other endpoint and then connect this to a dongle/DAC.
It would be a bit of a Frankenstein but the SBC is small enough for mobile use.

I use a Pi Zero 2 W as the source for my bedside DAC and am very impressed with it.

 

[staticV3]

On your point, an idea I had for OP which I never posted was to use a battery powered raspberry Pi Zero 2w, or similar SBC, setup as a DLNA/Airplay/Spotify/Tidal/Other endpoint and then connect this to a dongle/DAC.
It would be a bit of a Frankenstein but the SBC is small enough for mobile use.

OP wants something for on the go (cycling etc), so I don't think that this would work.
Unless the Zero 2w can simultaneously act as router, access point, and DLNA endpoint?