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[No Politics] What you need to know about CoVID-19 by SARS-CoV-2 [No Politics]

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As I said before, many people die with Covid19 rather than from it. The comorbidity is massive. Deciding the 'real' cause of death thus becomes a potentially vacuous game of words. However, this is not to belittle what is going on, or exonerate some of the incompetent policy makers (or talkers).
 
Seems nobody dies due to old age anymore.
It was proposed that Covid-19 meant that old people were dying sooner, usually with the illness which would have got them anyway. If this is the case the death rate of old people should ease later in the year when the pandemic has waned/passed and be less than expected since so many had already died.
I don't find the idea especially appealing now I am officially old.
 
The death rate among the elderly will indeed probably go down again later. This is the flu pattern as well.
 
The death rate among the elderly will indeed probably go down again later. This is the flu pattern as well.
What i meant was go down to lower levels than average since those that were going to die later in the year die earlier instead.
Will the annual death figure end up being more or not for the elderly?
 
Thanks Maty> So You’re Going Outside: A Physics-Based Coronavirus Infection Risk Estimator for Leaving the House
https://medium.com/swlh/so-youre-go...-estimator-for-leaving-the-house-d7dcae2746c0
I know people are going to say this is not peer reviewed and there's a boatload of assumptions, but as an indication of relative risks it's very useful. This kind of thing comes closer than most posts (often including mine) to What you need to know about CoVID-19
 
Thanks Maty> So You’re Going Outside: A Physics-Based Coronavirus Infection Risk Estimator for Leaving the House
https://medium.com/swlh/so-youre-go...-estimator-for-leaving-the-house-d7dcae2746c0
I know people are going to say this is not peer reviewed and there's a boatload of assumptions, but as an indication of relative risks it's very useful. This kind of thing comes closer than most posts (often including mine) to What you need to know about CoVID-19

The best way to go outside without fear is listening to The Ride Of The Valkyries. Just now, Stokowski-Wagner & London Symphony Orchestra - Orchestral Masterpieces From The Ring Of The Niebelung (1967), Vinyl, Decca, UK :)
 
I've been watching epidemiologists on TV and the point that they keep making is that the countries that have been successful in controlling the virus (Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Germany) have placed their emphasis on testing, contact tracing, and isolation of infected individuals along with ensuring those individuals have places to be isolated and daily checks on their well being and continued isolation. These are not cutting edge techniques, rather that they are epidemiology 101. In a previous century large sanitariums were built to treat TB which both isolated and treated an epidemic disease.

On a more personal note, I find it strange that people can be so cavalier about tens of thousands of preventable deaths. This also applies to the flu where there is a vaccine, but only about 1/2 actually get the shot.

I agree about the Flu vaccine - it's free in Canada and offered any any drug store, the pharmacist pokes you, however the majority of my friends and co-workers don't get the vaccine. I know it's not a perfect vaccine, but it's a head-scratcher as to why people refuse to get it - it would protect others if not themselves.
 
I've been watching epidemiologists on TV and the point that they keep making is that the countries that have been successful in controlling the virus (Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Germany) have placed their emphasis on testing, contact tracing, and isolation of infected individuals along with ensuring those individuals have places to be isolated and daily checks on their well being and continued isolation.
This was pretty well the WHO recommendation in February iirc
 
What i meant was go down to lower levels than average since those that were going to die later in the year die earlier instead.
Will the annual death figure end up being more or not for the elderly?
In sofar as the dead are indeed largely the very old, the number of deaths will go down to below normal pretty soon afterwards, but when exactly will be hard to predict.. Not every deceased person will have been close to their expected date of death, so there will be a tail going into next year. But if it will be similar to flu, the peak now will be followed by a dip later, particularly later in the summer. In the end we all die. This is only about when.
In this respect the Spanish flu was different, in the sense that that epidemic largely killed young adolescents and young adults who still had a long life before them. So it not only killed more, but the number of lost years was far far greater.
 
I was thinking the same thing. Are doctors just checking the COVID box for all elderly deaths these days? When this is over, I look forward to seeing the cause of death statistics, especially for older people. During the pandemic, did any elderly people actually (officially) die of the typical causes, cancer, heart disease, pneumonia, etc. ?
You may be willfully ignoring the reports (including in this thread even today) of excess deaths over expected and increases in deaths due to people with heart attacks not being reached by ambulances in time, etc.

N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html

Please do not post conspiracy theories without direct evidence of an actual conspiracy.
 
I was thinking the same thing. Are doctors just checking the COVID box for all elderly deaths these days?
It's the "modern" standard to check for death causes even of very old people. 50 years ago old people died sleeping in their bed and nobody cared about the actual cause because it was (and is until today) a natural death.

Today the physician comes and examines the body until a cause is found (heard attack, multiple organ failure, you name it ...) just to be able to say that it was not a natural death.

The reason for this IMV is that nobody wants to accept that eventually he/she has to die.:( This may change in 50 or 100 years but so far such behaviour is just ignorance of life itself.:facepalm:

As a side note: Since most people die in a bed the logical consequence is never to enter a bed again, I'd say.
 
In sofar as the dead are indeed largely the very old, the number of deaths will go down to below normal pretty soon afterwards, but when exactly will be hard to predict.. Not every deceased person will have been close to their expected date of death, so there will be a tail going into next year. But if it will be similar to flu, the peak now will be followed by a dip later, particularly later in the summer. In the end we all die. This is only about when.
In this respect the Spanish flu was different, in the sense that that epidemic largely killed young adolescents and young adults who still had a long life before them. So it not only killed more, but the number of lost years was far far greater.

Let's look at some data. According to the CDC, 79.2% of the deaths in the US have been 65 or over. We all know that people 65 or older are disposable, so let's not cry for them. They were - every last one of them - moochers and feeding of those of us vital young folks who actually contribute to society. So good riddance, I say. /S

Now, that pesky 20.8% - that's 13,000 people (young people so they are REAL people) at last count. Interestingly, the CDC also reports flu deaths independently of Covid-19 deaths. So, let's see.... hmm... Covid-19 has killed 3.5x as many people 64 and younger in the US than the flu. About 43 jumbo jet-liners full of young people in the past 8 weeks.

And yesterday was the 2nd worst day for reported deaths in the US. It ain't ending any time soon, folks. The final number (this year, forget about next year) will certainly be at least double where we are now - that's how bell curves work.

So if you can't tell, I've just about had it with people minimizing the impact of this.
 
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Today is normally a day here in my country when students graduate & celebrate. Photo on top below is 2019, below today 2020.

1588278146047.jpeg
 
In the last hour, I just attended a Zoom funeral for a guy who was 91 and in the last stages of senile dementia. Sometimes death is not the worst outcome.

Of course, his death got counted as Wuhan virus. He wasn't even tested, it was "presumed." So I'm learning that I can't trust even obvious stats like number of deaths, much less the clearly unknown number of infections.

It was bizarre to see the rabbi all alone in the columbarium, but wearing a mask. Perhaps he was worried about infecting the ashes of the corpses?
 
Let's look at some data. According to the CDC, 79.2% of the deaths in the US have been 65 or over. We all know that people 65 or older are disposable, so let's not cry for them. They were - every last one of them - moochers and feeding of those of us vital young folks who actually contribute to society. So good riddance, I say.
Can't wait to read what @Xulonn , @Floyd Toole and other venerable aged members might answer to this disgusting statement:mad: since I'm not yet qualified for an answer.
 
Can't wait to read what @Xulonn , @Floyd Toole and other venerable aged members might answer to this disgusting statement:mad: since I'm not yet qualified for an answer.

I am. And old enough to recognize sarcasm.
 
So if you can't tell, I've just about had it with people minimizing the impact of this.
I am not minimizing it or thinking of the elderly as disposables (I am 67 myself). I am trying to show the true extent. And I am not one of those who cry for their freedom to infect others, or claim that the US is doing great and has nothing to worry about. None of that. We have to tread very carefully between doing too much and doing too little. We can only do that on the basis of facts.
 
I am not minimizing it or thinking of the elderly as disposables (I am 67 myself). I am trying to show the true extent. And I am not one of those who cry for their freedom to infect others, or claim that the US is doing great and has nothing to worry about. None of that. We have to tread very carefully between doing too much and doing too little. We can only do that on the basis of facts.
I know you are not, @Willem. I didn't mean to imply you are advancing this line of argument.
 
Can't wait to read what @Xulonn , @Floyd Toole and other venerable aged members might answer to this disgusting statement:mad: since I'm not yet qualified for an answer.
@LTig I hope you could tell I was being sarcastic there. I will add a /S to my post. Some folks talk about older people dying in these terms, with a kind of shrug. These are the same people who said in February and even March "it's just the flu" and "they would have died soon anyway". It is the opposite of my thinking.

Also, I believe it's wrong to focus on fatalities. For each person who dies there is an equal or much larger group of people who go through a horrible, near-death experience, with hospitalization, invasive treatments, and traumatic body pain with sensations of drowning and organ failure. Yet they live. They matter too.
 
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