Blumlein 88
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The ignore button is your friend in this case. I hated adding that guy to it, but this thread was intolerable otherwise.
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[No Politics] What you need to know about CoVID-19 by SARS-CoV-2 [No Politics]
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The "normal" flu is nowhere as contagious as COVID 19 and 61,000 have died so far even with the extraordinary measures put in place; how many would be dead without those measures? More will die and it will come back in the fall, so I don't get your point.
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No good here, it's 41 Euro degrees outside (106 went to the Moon degrees) with intense sun. Good for Vitamin D, lousy for having any outside-the-house activity.
I'm lucky that I can work from home (CPA), my wife is still going into work, she works in the office of a small chemical company that makes numerous disinfectant products and has ramped up production of hand sanitizer they're providing to hospitals, nursing homes, etc.
Weather has been colder than historical averages here with some snow well into April, been taking vitamin D!
Weather has been colder than historical averages here with some snow well into April, been taking vitamin D!
Interesting regarding vitamin D. I have for years been taking vitamin D3 after reading about how many Americans are actually deficient. It seems that D3 supplementation can also lead to a greater "sense of well being", which I believe I experience, compared to before I started taking it. And it seems like I do not get colds nearly as frequently as before. All anecdotal, of course. Currently taking 5000 iu of D3 per day.
The point is, even with covid-19 being in addition to the flu, we still can only shut down the economy for so long, which is not much longer. Also, more will suffer and die from economic collapse as well. At some point, we are going to have to accept some level of risk and go back to work. Just look around, most countries are now in the process of reopening. It's a bad situation, but it has to be done. We just have to do the best job possible of reopening in the safest manner.
I've been watching epidemiologists on TV and the point that they keep making is that the countries that have been successful in controlling the virus (Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Germany) have placed their emphasis on testing, contact tracing, and isolation of infected individuals along with ensuring those individuals have places to be isolated and daily checks on their well being and continued isolation. These are not cutting edge techniques, rather that they are epidemiology 101. In a previous century large sanitariums were built to treat TB which both isolated and treated an epidemic disease.
On a more personal note, I find it strange that people can be so cavalier about tens of thousands of preventable deaths. This also applies to the flu where there is a vaccine, but only about 1/2 actually get the shot.
On a more personal note, I find it strange that people can be so cavalier about tens of thousands of preventable deaths. This also applies to the flu where there is a vaccine, but only about 1/2 actually get the shot.
It's not a handout, its a handback.
You beat me to it. My draft was almost an exact copy.
Not half as unpalatable as similar posts by those who are overly sensitive to views that don't conform to theirs. Make rational responses with counterpoints or you can be seen to be emotively pushing unarticulated beliefs/opinions. Matey is providing lots of information to consider. Your labelling of him is what is offensive. Not his views.
It is intriguing that some members here espouse the 'right' of 'Freedom' but wish to shut down divergent views. Address the views and don't personally attack the member - that just indicates lack of ability to support personal 'beliefs' and lack of tolerance of those of others.
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Yep. Science is a game that is played by the rules. One of those rules is that truth is provisional and falsifiable. Another is that we are transparent and look over each other's shoulders. All that was possible here.
The problem in the here and now is that we are in a hurry, and hence the distinction between what a philosopher of science called the context of discovery and the context of justification becomes blurred. Still, that does not justify bleach etc.
The problem in the here and now is that we are in a hurry, and hence the distinction between what a philosopher of science called the context of discovery and the context of justification becomes blurred. Still, that does not justify bleach etc.
Blumlein 88
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You can't make rational responses to what Matey is doing. He is just vomiting any kind of article he can find. I could do the same thing for a different country, but it isn't counterpoint to anything. He is spamming this thread with relatively uncurated content. I just put it on ignore not because of any agreement or disagreement. It is just information overload which isn't helping anything.
In my opinion what he is doing is like walking into a room where there is a conversation and start loudly yelling unconnected sentences with words to sound like he is part of the conversation too. I'm not sure that is freedom of divergent views. I also don't think Matey is doing this with the intent of causing any trouble for anyone or to drown them out. But the result is about the same. So I'm not trying to personally attack Matey, but I'd say I don't like how he is doing what he is doing. I'd like for there to be more Matey in his posts and less quoting of others.
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Well another poster didn't like the 'Matey' in the posts and made accusations against his character. Your reply to that poster indicated support.
I get the impression that many members appreciate Maty's input on this topic. Somewhat more than those who have noted strong discomfort - and they aren't always in agreeance with his posts or interpretation. The good thing is that they can rationally engage without spitting-the-
dummy(pacifier).
I am still waiting for those who are against lockdown, or, for early cessation of constraints to put forward a reasonable case without suppositions that they accuse medical experts of indulging in.
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Put whomever you wish on ignore , that's good advice .
Let's try and keep away from personal attacks , I know it can be challenging at times but try and lead with your best foot and act with humility.
Thanks
Let's try and keep away from personal attacks , I know it can be challenging at times but try and lead with your best foot and act with humility.
Thanks
That's a interesting social observation, i think he was probably responding to the call for information and less 1-1 personal battles but possibly this is a common theme in other parts of the forum too .
There's seemingly no actual communication possible or indeed invited by many of his postings , that's ok but their frequency makes this quite jarring .
These threads , the forum interactions are a mix of conversation and pure information sharing . They do then seem to follow the social rules ( hidden rules ) of interaction. One of which is recognising the others in the conversation and inviting their input in some way .
Else you just have a situation as @Blumlein 88 describes . Still the best way to deal with that is to put the offender on ignore or make room and tolerate it. A bit of constructive criticism is fair but we don't want to be personally attacking people .
I found a website that lists various death rates for several countries over the last 60 years:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN?end=2018&locations=AT-SE-NL-PT&start=1960
One of them is the “crude death rate”, counting everybody that has died over the year.
Typically, 35-25% of these come from accidents, and 20-30% relate to cancer, leaving approximately 60-50% for “illness” as a cause for death, mostly death from lung, heart, digestion or other problems.
I tabulated the maximum and minimum crude death rate and the last available data from 2018. These are the coloured pillars in the diagram.
I then added the average reported death number from Corona for April and recomputed the crude death rate with these numbers. And then I assumed that 30% of the reported Corona death cases might not be attributed to the virus itself. These are the two lines hovering above the pillars.
This graph can be interpreted in many ways, and as this is a non-political forum, I will not add a lot here. But I point out that the spread of the death for the last 60 years for the industrial countries probably reflects the work in mines and other heavy industry in early times. And there was the "Honkong Influenca" in 1968/69. And the low death rate of Mediterranean countries reflects the often cited "Mediterranean diet" and it shows how horribly these countries are hit. And I may just say that it seems statistical saver to live in the US with Corona then in Germany without it.
There is also seasonal & influenca cycling that would increase the Q1 death rates by around 10-20% above average (and then, of course, reducing them in the remaining part of the year).
I have no medical training or other unique insight. I may have made mistakes with this graph, and I am happy to hear about these mistakes.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN?end=2018&locations=AT-SE-NL-PT&start=1960
One of them is the “crude death rate”, counting everybody that has died over the year.
Typically, 35-25% of these come from accidents, and 20-30% relate to cancer, leaving approximately 60-50% for “illness” as a cause for death, mostly death from lung, heart, digestion or other problems.
I tabulated the maximum and minimum crude death rate and the last available data from 2018. These are the coloured pillars in the diagram.
I then added the average reported death number from Corona for April and recomputed the crude death rate with these numbers. And then I assumed that 30% of the reported Corona death cases might not be attributed to the virus itself. These are the two lines hovering above the pillars.
This graph can be interpreted in many ways, and as this is a non-political forum, I will not add a lot here. But I point out that the spread of the death for the last 60 years for the industrial countries probably reflects the work in mines and other heavy industry in early times. And there was the "Honkong Influenca" in 1968/69. And the low death rate of Mediterranean countries reflects the often cited "Mediterranean diet" and it shows how horribly these countries are hit. And I may just say that it seems statistical saver to live in the US with Corona then in Germany without it.
There is also seasonal & influenca cycling that would increase the Q1 death rates by around 10-20% above average (and then, of course, reducing them in the remaining part of the year).
I have no medical training or other unique insight. I may have made mistakes with this graph, and I am happy to hear about these mistakes.
For these numbers to be meaningful you have to assume a stable population and identical age distributions. However, some countries have witnessed big population increases. This means their deaths are the product of fewer births that happened on avarage some 70-80 years ago.
Some are even 'ankles'. Aussie slang. Look it up because posting the meaning will upset some souls.
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