If there is no information to withhold then there is no crisis, and there is no need for authoritative management which will control information dissemination, just because.
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[No Politics] What you need to know about CoVID-19 by SARS-CoV-2 [No Politics]
- Thread starter andymok
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If there is no information to withhold then there is no crisis, and there is no need for authoritative management which will control information dissemination, just because.
Dave Zan
Active Member
Well duh, obviously you should have said Smith and Wesson,
you some kind of communist you don't have an American weapon?Best wishes
David
Ok what scientific information do you thinks being purposely withheld right now ? Those incharge are over sharing if anything, Desperately.If there is no information to withhold then there is no crisis, and there is no need for authoritative management which will control information dissemination, just because.
What's withheld now are things like military strategy, strategy to deal with civil unrest. War planning, logistical planning for dealing with dead bodies . Strategies to deal with the collapse of some nationstates , The truth about PPE procurement and how unprepared we were .
More positive news regarding remdesivir. And again, as with HCQ, it appears that treatment earlier in the course of infection is more effective. The US market opened ~2% higher on the news.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gilead-says-remdesivir-shows-improvement-130650230.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gilead-says-remdesivir-shows-improvement-130650230.html
maty
Major Contributor
Creu Roja Tarragona [provincia] incrementa un 150% les entregues d'aliments a famílies arran de la crisi del coronavirus
[Catalan] https://www.diaridetarragona.com/ta...e-la-crisi-del-coronavirus-20200429-0039.html
Tarragona Red Cross [province] increases food deliveries to families by 150% as a result of the coronavirus crisis
https://translate.google.es/transla...e-la-crisi-del-coronavirus-20200429-0039.html
[ "Before the crisis, we cared for about 800 families, and now 1,200 more have been added. More than 4,000 people have received food aid from the Red Cross this month," said Sabaté. Many families need the help of the organization to be able to eat because they have lost their income due to losing their job due to ERTOs or not having started working with the start of the tourist season... ]
The Tarragona province had 795,000 inhabitants in 2019. As in the entire Spanish Mediterranean coast, tourism is a fundamental activity. National tourism may recover largely, but the rest will take years.
The same in France, Italy and other countries. Well, in all countries where tourism is very important as an economic activity.
[Catalan] https://www.diaridetarragona.com/ta...e-la-crisi-del-coronavirus-20200429-0039.html
Tarragona Red Cross [province] increases food deliveries to families by 150% as a result of the coronavirus crisis
https://translate.google.es/transla...e-la-crisi-del-coronavirus-20200429-0039.html
[ "Before the crisis, we cared for about 800 families, and now 1,200 more have been added. More than 4,000 people have received food aid from the Red Cross this month," said Sabaté. Many families need the help of the organization to be able to eat because they have lost their income due to losing their job due to ERTOs or not having started working with the start of the tourist season... ]
The Tarragona province had 795,000 inhabitants in 2019. As in the entire Spanish Mediterranean coast, tourism is a fundamental activity. National tourism may recover largely, but the rest will take years.
The same in France, Italy and other countries. Well, in all countries where tourism is very important as an economic activity.
Old Listener
Addicted to Fun and Learning
This thread has turned into a forum for Covid-19 deniers. What's next? Holocaust denier threads? Climate change deniers threads?
Veri
Master Contributor
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Only a couple are stupid enough, percentually it makes sense there are at least some 'among us'.
Old Listener
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Threads get swamped in the back-and-forth between a few cranks who post endlessly and a larger group attempting to rebut them. This has happened in a number of audio oriented threads in the past.
D
Deleted member 65
Guest
No clinical benefits from remdesivir, study finds
”Unfortunately, our trial found that while safe and adequately tolerated, remdesivir did not provide significant benefits over placebo,” said Bin Cao from China-Japan Friendship Hospital and Capital Medical University in China, who led the research.
“This is not the outcome we hoped for.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...wn-china-toll-as-us-infections-pass-1-million
”Unfortunately, our trial found that while safe and adequately tolerated, remdesivir did not provide significant benefits over placebo,” said Bin Cao from China-Japan Friendship Hospital and Capital Medical University in China, who led the research.
“This is not the outcome we hoped for.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...wn-china-toll-as-us-infections-pass-1-million
The more important point is whether the research is reliable, not the reporting.
Well, that is that the Chinese trial we heard about last week that was stopped early, due to a lack of patients.
https://www.barrons.com/news/antivi...ificant-benefit-in-virus-patients-01588174805
I put more stock in the NIAID trial and Dr. Fauci on this.
I don't see any denial, there's a attack on our way of life , the mechanisms we have built society on are under threat and the damage and unpreparedness is profound.
In past times such a attack would come from a outside nation(s) and the response would accept a toll, a death toll . War.
We are choosing to negate that price , the cost of doing so may well defeat all that we have fort for and by we I don't mean me , I live a privileged life given to me by the turmoil , devastation and sacrifice of generation's before me.
And that's what's at stake imo .
There was some discussion here , not sure of the thread but basically a lot of folks were pouring scorn on the idea this would have huge economic ramifications.
It's beyond imagination and we are doing it to ourselves.
As I said, published in the Lancet, which is the major UK medical journal, and one of the top medical journals in the world. As with all scientific research, it may one day turn out to be not true, or not quite true, but for now this is as good as it gets. See here for subsequent comment in the Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31023-0/fulltext Science is an ongoing discussion, but this was/is good and credible research.
maty
Major Contributor
Very interesting but...
Gafas empañadas y tensión, así han sido las primeras autopsias de covid-19 en España
[Spanish] https://www.vozpopuli.com/altavoz/next/Gafas-empanadas-primeras-autopsias-Espana_0_1350466357.html
Glasses fogged and tension, so have been the first autopsies of covid-19 in Spain
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://www.vozpopuli.com/altavoz/next/Gafas-empanadas-primeras-autopsias-Espana_0_1350466357.html
[ In these first four patients died by covid-19 the final cause of death has been very varied. "In some cases it has been a cerebral hemorrhage, in others a digestive hemorrhage and in another a multiorgan failure," the pathologist says. These early analyses focused especially on lung tissue, although at first glance no severe damage was seen in other organs such as the heart, as has happened in Italian autopsies. "Overall the lesion you see is diffuse alveolar damage that can be in different evolutionary phases," explains the doctor. "This is a way for the lung to react to many aggressions, whether viral, bacterial or chemical. Almost all patients have microtrombos, although pathophysiology needs to be studied more, but in other situations of diffuse alveolar damage caused by other agents the presence of microtrombos also occurs. To what extent are they more important than in other similar lung pathologies? That would have to be checked."
A "perfect storm"
The other great source of pathological information about the disease is being obtained from tissue samples taken by some hospitals of deceased patients for further analysis, waiting to channel autopsies. "We have done a few dozen studies through this sampling procedure and we are in the analysis phase," explains Federico Rojo, head of the Department of Pathological Anatomy at the Jiménez Díaz Foundation. As in Italian cases, Dr. Rojo and his team have seen damage that goes beyond respiratory in the samples they have been collecting since the beginning of March. "What we have found is that the injury that occurs not only in the lung, that there is systemic involvement, that there is a serious affectation of significant various organs," he explains. "There is significant lung damage but also of other organs, and at the stage we are is the characterization of why this occurs from infection with the virus."
This pathological analysis also shows the consequences of impaired immune response caused by covid-19 in people who become more severe. "We have the same observations as in other countries," says Dr. Rojo. "We have seen on the one hand some effects of thrombosis in small vessels in different organs, it seems that there is a microthrombosis of the lung that triggers an injury to the respiratory system and hence the consequences that we all know of asphyxiation or dyspnoea," he says. "It also seems that an injury in the endotheteums and we have also observed an alteration of lymphocytes and other cells in the bone marrow, it seems that the maturation process of the different blood cell lineages - red, white and platelet - are altered and there is a haemophagocyte phenomenon of alteration of the functioning of immune cells that attack these precursors within the bone marrow." ]
[ For José Palacios, from Ramón y Cajal, it is unclear whether the clotting damage is different from other lung involvements. "Endothelial damage is difficult to see, a manifestation can be microtrombos," he says...
"We suspect that there may be, in the medium term, some kind of side effect," he says. "This lung injury can probably lead to some fibrosis and that to complications in the future of impaired lung function, but this is suggested data from the observations and that still needs to be confirmed. We may see complications from the infection in the next few years." ]
Gafas empañadas y tensión, así han sido las primeras autopsias de covid-19 en España
[Spanish] https://www.vozpopuli.com/altavoz/next/Gafas-empanadas-primeras-autopsias-Espana_0_1350466357.html
Glasses fogged and tension, so have been the first autopsies of covid-19 in Spain
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://www.vozpopuli.com/altavoz/next/Gafas-empanadas-primeras-autopsias-Espana_0_1350466357.html
[ In these first four patients died by covid-19 the final cause of death has been very varied. "In some cases it has been a cerebral hemorrhage, in others a digestive hemorrhage and in another a multiorgan failure," the pathologist says. These early analyses focused especially on lung tissue, although at first glance no severe damage was seen in other organs such as the heart, as has happened in Italian autopsies. "Overall the lesion you see is diffuse alveolar damage that can be in different evolutionary phases," explains the doctor. "This is a way for the lung to react to many aggressions, whether viral, bacterial or chemical. Almost all patients have microtrombos, although pathophysiology needs to be studied more, but in other situations of diffuse alveolar damage caused by other agents the presence of microtrombos also occurs. To what extent are they more important than in other similar lung pathologies? That would have to be checked."
A "perfect storm"
The other great source of pathological information about the disease is being obtained from tissue samples taken by some hospitals of deceased patients for further analysis, waiting to channel autopsies. "We have done a few dozen studies through this sampling procedure and we are in the analysis phase," explains Federico Rojo, head of the Department of Pathological Anatomy at the Jiménez Díaz Foundation. As in Italian cases, Dr. Rojo and his team have seen damage that goes beyond respiratory in the samples they have been collecting since the beginning of March. "What we have found is that the injury that occurs not only in the lung, that there is systemic involvement, that there is a serious affectation of significant various organs," he explains. "There is significant lung damage but also of other organs, and at the stage we are is the characterization of why this occurs from infection with the virus."
This pathological analysis also shows the consequences of impaired immune response caused by covid-19 in people who become more severe. "We have the same observations as in other countries," says Dr. Rojo. "We have seen on the one hand some effects of thrombosis in small vessels in different organs, it seems that there is a microthrombosis of the lung that triggers an injury to the respiratory system and hence the consequences that we all know of asphyxiation or dyspnoea," he says. "It also seems that an injury in the endotheteums and we have also observed an alteration of lymphocytes and other cells in the bone marrow, it seems that the maturation process of the different blood cell lineages - red, white and platelet - are altered and there is a haemophagocyte phenomenon of alteration of the functioning of immune cells that attack these precursors within the bone marrow." ]
[ For José Palacios, from Ramón y Cajal, it is unclear whether the clotting damage is different from other lung involvements. "Endothelial damage is difficult to see, a manifestation can be microtrombos," he says...
"We suspect that there may be, in the medium term, some kind of side effect," he says. "This lung injury can probably lead to some fibrosis and that to complications in the future of impaired lung function, but this is suggested data from the observations and that still needs to be confirmed. We may see complications from the infection in the next few years." ]
As you said, that doesn't make it correct.
I don't want to drag this thread into politics, but Lancet has not done itself any favors in that regard in recent years.
What is political about publishing good academic research that meets all the standards of a high ranking journal? I would certainly have preferred a different result, and so does everyone else, but that is the nature of the game. The limitations of the research were properly stated, and it was good and sound work. The problem was the limited sample size and the fortunately declining pool of patients to study. As was said, the way forward is for such teams to pool their data. But as a Dutch researcher said, if there was a really good one among current options we would have known already - unfortunately.
I have to be honest and say the reaction to this virus has shown how indulged , complacent and weak we have all become as a society.
It is political, it's because the death toll is politically toxic in the short term we are risking medium and long-term Armageddon.
That's weak.
It is political, it's because the death toll is politically toxic in the short term we are risking medium and long-term Armageddon.
That's weak.
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