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[No Politics] What you need to know about CoVID-19 by SARS-CoV-2 [No Politics]

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One thing that concerns me is that some people will be afraid to go back to restaurants.

A couple of local restaurants in our area went to online orderin and take out. We give the normal tips, feel bad for owners and employees.
We're some of those people - I don't feel comfortable going back to restaurants, and not sure I ever will until / unless there's a vaccine.

Still social distancing here.
 

raistlin65

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We're some of those people - I don't feel comfortable going back to restaurants, and not sure I ever will until / unless there's a vaccine.

Still social distancing here.
Me, too. I used to eat out 5 times a week (mostly lunch or breakfast) sit down in a restaurant. I'm not doing that until our government can control community spread with contact tracing, or a highly effective vaccine.
 

Ron Texas

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what is the 'normal' closure rate?

restaurants are about the worst small biz in terms of making a go of it and IIRC most don't make it 3 years in normal times
In California two chains with around 80 locations each have folded.
 

kevinh

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We're some of those people - I don't feel comfortable going back to restaurants, and not sure I ever will until / unless there's a vaccine.

Still social distancing here.
We have some friends who feel this way also. We aren’t concerned but you have to do what is best for you.
 

MediumRare

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MediumRare

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Putter

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Data lacking to recommend broad mask use
We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because:

  • There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission
  • Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection
  • We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.
Sweeping mask recommendations—as many have proposed—will not reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission, as evidenced by the widespread practice of wearing such masks in Hubei province, China, before and during its mass COVID-19 transmission experience earlier this year. Our review of relevant studies indicates that cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as PPE.

I find the article disturbing. It's contrary to all general recommendation from the CDC and most other authorities. Therefore it should require a high standard of proof.

1st- The date of article April 1, 2020. We've moved on. The last bullet point is an indication about surgical masks in short supply which are not considered effective at protecting health care workers as N95 masks.

2nd- They reference Hubei province without giving data proving it was ineffective.

3rd- I live in New York State. Our curve is flattening while the rest of the country is increasing in the number of cases. This is due to both mask wearing AND social distancing.
 
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Data lacking to recommend broad mask use
We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because:

  • There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission
  • Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection
  • We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.
Sweeping mask recommendations—as many have proposed—will not reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission, as evidenced by the widespread practice of wearing such masks in Hubei province, China, before and during its mass COVID-19 transmission experience earlier this year. Our review of relevant studies indicates that cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as PPE.

I find the article disturbing. It's contrary to all general recommendation from the CDC and most other authorities. Therefore it should require a high standard of proof.

1st- The date of article April 1, 2020. We've moved on. The last bullet point is an indication about surgical masks in short supply which are not considered effective at protecting health care workers as N95 masks.

2nd- They reference Hubei province without giving data proving it was ineffective.

3rd- I live in New York State. Our curve is flattening while the rest of the country is increasing in the number of cases. This is due to both mask wearing AND social distancing.
The paper comes from The University of Minnesota. All the technical references are listed at the bottom of the page.
 

Wombat

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There are lots of papers(beware white-papers that are common re audio). Authoritative Peer Review is the gold standard. Cherry picking of publications, even of university prints with miles of references, to support opinions is not substantive.

Posting for general FYI or FWIW consideration is reasonable but not conclusive.
 
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There are lots of papers(beware white-papers that are common re audio). Authoritative Peer Review is the gold standard. Cherry picking of publications, even of university prints with miles of references, to support opinions is not substantive.

Posting for general FYI or FWIW consideration is reasonable but not conclusive.
That's true, but at worst, they know more about the subject than we do. At least their "opinions" are subjective & not governed by having to tow any political line.
 

solderdude

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  • There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission
  • We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.
These arguments appear conflicting to me.

There is no scientific evidence yet healthcare workers need them.
I would think that if they were not effective healthworkers wouldn't be needing them either, they do hence they do work. But only when used correctly.
There are probably lots of healthcare workers wearing masks that still were infected though.

Yeah yeah I know... those are replaced every few hours and one would expect they have had training how to properly use and remove them.
It is so funny to see 'ordinary folks' grabbing and pulling them down or wearing them incorrectly.
For those folks they won't work as intended. I also believe those folks only wear them in public because they have to otherwise they get a fine.
 

maty

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This morning, Tarragona streets, about 15% did not wear mask. Let us put another 15% with it wrong: on the chin, on the forehead or with the nose out. We will have to continue using FFP2 or FFP3 and not surgical or equivalent to protect me against them.

It is assumed that in a few weeks they will not be necessary on the street and after in closed places. In the end, on public transport.

Because of the incivism of a few, it will take longer to control the pandemic, until effective medication is found first and then vaccination is found.

In stores, everyone with a mask. But not everyone have alcoholic hydrogel or plastic hand bags. Nitrile gloves are scarce. I have only seen one other person use gel on the street. Almost everyone touches the mask without cleaning their hands afterwards.
 

BDWoody

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what is the 'normal' closure rate?

restaurants are about the worst small biz in terms of making a go of it and IIRC most don't make it 3 years in normal times
https://www.fsrmagazine.com/expert-...tability-and-failure-rates-what-you-need-know

The statistics aren’t pretty. Sixty percent of restaurants don’t make it past their first year and 80 percent go out of business within five years...

...Additionally, the average profit margin for a restaurant, after removing all other costs, is only 6.2 percent.
One of the problems is that many new restaurant owners have no idea how to run a business. They figure, how hard can it be...i can cook...and a year or two later they are broke. A well run, successful restaurant is a beautiful thing. Very few are. There are many restaurants we service where I would never eat for any number of reasons.
 

jhaider

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That's true, but at worst, they know more about the subject than we do. At least their "opinions" are subjective & not governed by having to tow any political line.
It is sad that protecting the community is considered “political” in some circles now.

Here is some recent sense on mask wearing by the Gov. Burgum of North Dakota, a Republican.

 

Putter

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The paper comes from The University of Minnesota. All the technical references are listed at the bottom of the page.
That was my point which was that if you're going to make a recommendation that goes against the consensus, you need to do more than just quote a reference. You need to explain its findings and why you think it's correct. Otherwise it's just armchair science of which we've already had too much of in this pandemic. (The last part was intended to be political. :()
 

Putter

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1590246917975.png

Mother's Day was May 10, 2 weeks ago. I've been expecting a jump in cases given that roughly matches the incubation period of the corona virus and it does appear to be there (unfortunately). I recall seeing lots of maskless large family gatherings in states that opened up early with little or no restriction and even in NYS where I reside. It would be tragic if mothers died due to the holiday that celebrates them.
 
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