Nightclub speakers - what makes them sound like they do?

[Audionaut]

but not coaxials like you use because there the woofer distort the tweeter

I get around this by ALWAYS adding an extra low-frequency channel, even with large coaxial speakers like a 12- or 15-inch model, which means the cone barely moves at all—especially with large cones.

But you’re right, and I always mention this: coaxial speaker drivers with a tweeter horn have inherent disadvantages—but in my opinion, the advantages outweigh them.
That’s why I have two basic principles for a coaxial speaker: first, ALWAYS include an additional low-frequency channel, and second, tune it slightly off-axis.
If the driver is of good quality, the result is, to my ears, pretty much the best that can be achieved.

Above all, you don’t get that completely different sound on the vertical axis

 

[Vandemann]

Look into Alex Rosner, David Mancuso and Richard Long.

 

[Chr1]

Also, I would add that there's often quite a lot of difference between the models of drivers made by each manufacturer, and therefore sweeping generalisations about brands often don't accurately correlate to a specific models performance.

 

[Keith_W]

Don't you have professional horns in the high-frequency range yourself?

Thank you for your very helpful reply.

I don't know if my horns are considered "professional" or not. All I can tell you is that I did not pay a "pro audio" price for them. I paid "high end audio" price

 

[Ropeburn]

Interesting description of the challenges of club sound in a concrete tube, by the installer:

The Tresor Club in Berlin | Lambda Labs

High-performance speakers designed and crafted in Austria.

lambda-labs.com

 

[Trdat]

Club bass from Klipsch ain't never going to happen.

My understanding of club systems is low distortion, horn loaded top end, thousands of watts and mid bass boosted with EQ

Agree they can sound very good especially with modern RnB.

I agree, if the recording doesn't need added reverberation to the ambience controlled directivity with a horn loading and 15inch mid usually can emulate the nightclub sound.

But you also need dual subs.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Interesting description of the challenges of club sound in a concrete tube, by the installer:

The Tresor Club in Berlin | Lambda Labs

High-performance speakers designed and crafted in Austria.

lambda-labs.com

View attachment 531336

Looks like it was installed around 3 years ago. I was there probably like 10 years ago, what little I remember it was pretty good even back then.

One of the best club sounds I've experienced was at a large club in Melbourne I think it was back in 2006 or something, I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. Sasha & Digweed was DJing I think. Obviously don't remember any detail about the sound beyond being very impressed. loud, clean and punchy without being harsh and piercing is typically what makes me happy. It's scary how little one remembers from 20 years ago.

EDIT:
Internet to the rescue, apparently QBH, looks like it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Chr1]

Lol. Some of my best clubbing memories, (plus lack thereof), were at a small place in Edinburgh called "The Venue". It actually had a terrible PA, but being young in the 90s, it didn't seem to matter. A very fun time none the less. As I get older, and my clubbing days are now in the past, I wonder what it must be like with a proper modern high quality sound system.
I have considered venturing out to The Bongo Club, with its new Danley system. (Looks like it has decent seating for us geriatric oldies too. Lol.)

Saying that, it appears that lots of clubs are now full of young people constantly filming each other with their phones. And making heart signs at each other. WTAF.
Good to see that some clubs have banned such nefarious activity.
(God, I sound old.)

 

[Ramon Cota]

i recently compared some measurements on dibirama ( i know , not the most detailed measurements ) of large pro woofers and smaller hi-fi ones ( from scan-speak mostly ) and the conslusion was that pro woofers distorted more at lower levels untill they reached 95+ db and only then started to distort less compared to hi-fi speakers. I will take speakers that distort less at lower volumes because 100 db is of no use for me at home.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

i recently compared some measurements on dibirama ( i know , not the most detailed measurements ) of large pro woofers and smaller hi-fi ones ( from scan-speak mostly ) and the conslusion was that pro woofers distorted more at lower levels untill they reached 95+ db and only then started to distort less compared to hi-fi speakers. I will take speakers that distort less at lower volumes because 100 db is of no use for me at home.

Sounds like a pretty broad generalization. And I'm a bit intrigued that you got much distortion at all below 95dB with a large pro woofer, and add to that they actually distorted more than a smaller hifi woofer? And what is the definition of large and small? Do you have some examples to share?

 

[JohnnyNG]

However,> Regardless of this, there is often another factor at play > our own hearing. Due to the Fletcher-Munson or equal-loudness curves, we perceive bass and treble much more weakly at low volumes, and as the volume increases, music therefore automatically sounds fuller, more dynamic, and livelier—a quality often attributed to the speaker itself, even though a significant portion of this effect is psychoacoustic in nature.

Indeed - that's why it's been called "loudness" compensation for about as long as there have been hifi receivers. Maybe a modern button for such can be labelled "Come Alive". A louder volume itself , though, has its own quality that can't be simulated at lower volumes. I don't mean nightclub levels but a quiet system is going to sound quiet with no "chest kick", etc.

 

[Ramon Cota]

sure . i took at random three pro drivers , two 15 inchers and one 12 inch , compared to 8 inch hi fi woofers at 90 db and from 50 hz and up ( below where they distort rapidly due to running out of excursion i think ) and large pro woofers distort more , two , sometimes three times more.

hi-fi :

DAYTON AUDIO RS225-8

Woofer 8

www.dibirama.it

SCAN SPEAK 21W/8555-10

Woofer 8

www.dibirama.it

pro :

EIGHTEEN SOUND 12NLW9300

Woofer 12

www.dibirama.it

B&C SPEAKERS 15PZB100

Woofer 15

www.dibirama.it

BEYMA SM-115/N

Woofer 15

www.dibirama.it

 

[Sigberg Audio]

sure . i took at random three pro drivers , two 15 inchers and one 12 inch , compared to 8 inch hi fi woofers at 90 db and from 50 hz and up ( below where they distort rapidly due to running out of excursion i think ) and large pro woofers distort more , two , sometimes three times more.

hi-fi :

DAYTON AUDIO RS225-8

Woofer 8

www.dibirama.it

SCAN SPEAK 21W/8555-10

Woofer 8

www.dibirama.it

pro :

EIGHTEEN SOUND 12NLW9300

Woofer 12

www.dibirama.it

B&C SPEAKERS 15PZB100

Woofer 15

www.dibirama.it

BEYMA SM-115/N

Woofer 15

www.dibirama.it

Not sure what's going on with those woofers or how this is measured (not very detailed graphs), but if you compare more apples to apples, here's an 8" made by a pro manufacturer (so similar size to the Dayton and Scan-Speak):

SICA 8H2CP-8

Woofer 8

www.dibirama.it

Here is the 12" pro woofer we use in the Manta at 93dB:

 

[Ramon Cota]

that sica is nice , but it resembles more an ordinary hi-fi woofer ( rubber surround , unspectacular efficiency , bass extension ) . I really would like to see more in depths comparision of large pro woofers at sensible home listening levels.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

that sica is nice , but it resembles more an ordinary hi-fi woofer ( rubber surround , unspectacular efficiency , bass extension ) . I really would like to see more in depths comparision of large pro woofers at sensible home listening levels.

How about the 12" I shared measurements from?

 

[Ramon Cota]

its good for sure , but that is not enough data ( as well as those dibirama measurements although i see a pattern ) to draw a definitive conclusion about large pro woofers at low levels.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

its good for sure , but that is not enough data ( as well as those dibirama measurements although i see a pattern ) to draw a definitive conclusion .

I think perhaps it's not so helpful to try to categorize and figuring out if an entire category (which is quite vaguely defined) is good or bad, but rather select the specific driver that is most suitable for the application.

 

[Audionaut]

large pro woofers distort more , two , sometimes three times more.

Where do you see that?

B&C 15PZB100

SCAN SPEAK 21W/8555-10

 

[levimax]

its good for sure , but that is not enough data ( as well as those dibirama measurements although i see a pattern ) to draw a definitive conclusion about large pro woofers at low levels.

Below is a low level ~80 dB THD measurement from REW for a LaVoce SAF184.03 18" driver. It stays well below 1% from 20 Hz to 800 Hz.

 

[Ramon Cota]

Where do you see that?

red line , mostly
between 40 and 180 hz
narrow peak of 2,7 % thd at 70 hz for scan speak and much broader peak of 4 % for much much larger pro woofer.
actually b&c loses with SS anywhere between 40 and 180 hz at 90 db
do you see it now ?