Nightclub speakers - what makes them sound like they do?

[Palmer]

Loving the discussion so far, thank you everyone. Some really beautiful setups being shared too, I'm very envious.

It's also interesting to hear the Funktion One kit being mentioned on more than one occasion. I must admit to a bias towards them, as they're the ones I first remember finding out about (The End pretty much kitted the entire three dancefloors out in them and the club-oriented stuff has an industrial beauty about it - along with excellent sound.)

I looked into their smaller passive speakers (I don't have a huge space to cover, but also not a huge amount of room to work with.) My major issue/concern is that finding and auditioning that kind of thing is pretty difficult (and I say this as someone who lives within an easy journey of central London, so it must be doubly frustrating for many other people.) That said, I think their smaller passive line (or something similar) is likely to be my most suitable "compromise" solution. I still want it to be capable when I want to sit down and listen, but when I'm there alone or with my DJing friends, it would be great to get more of the mid-and-high-end up to our ear level while we're standing

As I mentioned in the OP, I'm interested in the discussion itself as much as truly finding a solution that would work in my room - I'm under no illusions that if I made any changes it would result in a nightclub feel. But we're all here trying to find something, right?

Something that interests me was @sigbergaudio commenting on the midbass range. I think this is key for slam, but I also think it's true of the entire spectrum. Even response at varying heights is a big challenge and auditory masking can be the enemy of the clean sound I have in mind. (I'm aware that many nightclubs actually have terrible sound, but I'm not referring to those.) I actually have the low end completely covered in the room (controlling it is another issue, but from an SPL perspective I have no concerns about reproducing anything below 100Hz.)

I think, in summary, I need to create a more even response with a wider and taller "sweetspot" higher up the frequency response but, as I say, even if I never change a thing, I'm really enjoying the discussion! Thanks everyone

These work, and are still out there - there's trade-offs, but that's physics.

Cheers

 

[gnarly]

It definitely looks like an awesome system you have built there. Very curious to know more about it, if possible?

Thanks for the interest. I've been a bit reluctant to go into more details, thinking my system is too much of my own thing, that very few would have interest in.
But also keep thinking, what the heck...the thread is about nightclub speakers, so why not go into it, what I've to to do to get to where I'm at.. I know what I've built will fit very few, but hopefully it's at least a bit interesting.

I'm continually testing different DIY synergy/MEH versions with different DIY subs. The synergies have all used either a B&C or BMS 1.4" coax compression driver; and the subs all use the 18" BMS 18n862. The straight-sided conical synergy horns have varied in size and the horn wall angles which established the constant directivity H&V angles.

The size of the horn determines how low in frequency they hold the constant directivity. Which means big matters.

Here's two of the latest version as shown in my previous pic, but with them sitting of different subs. The blue horn has the CD, four 4" mids, and two 10" lows....a 4-way.
It's 90x60, 36" wide, holding horizontal pattern down to about 300Hz.
I have 3 of them for 3-ch LCR, and 3 of the ported subs below them which are tuned f-3 at 26Hz
White horn has CD, four 4"mids, two 12"lows, and two 18" extended lows...a 5-way...and still needs a sub lol. The sub under it is a double 18" with 12" dia down firing ports.
Tuned around f-3 @23Hz

You can see both subs have wheels. A big part of my enjoyment and testing, is to be able to easily move the big stacks around, especially to roll them outdoors onto a deck.
Listening outdoors, measuring outdoors...it's been a prime factor in the evolution of my DIY. Lord how glorious outdoors can be.


Also pls note I build for standing ear height...no more seated couch stuff for me. (I keep some full range electrostats for that.) I'd build even higher if I could roll them through the patio doors. Speakers simply sound better up off the floor, and the higher up they go...imo.

All are set up active DSP, with FIR and IIR...mainly FIR to achieve linear phase (as for ease of tuning, as for whether audible or not). Used QSC network amps and Q-SYS Cores. Dante signal flow. Any PC in the house can stream via Dante Virtual soundcard. Any PC tablet or IOS device can me made to be a remote with whatever one would like to control.

Which really helps with A/B comparisons. It's easy to run both the blue horn and white horn above, from the same remote, instantly switching between them.
And all speaker processing can be instantly silently switched....even complete sets of FIR filters swap instantly silently.

Speaker cables...speakon handles 1,2, or 4 channels per cable. Connector snap cables together for rolling sub and main stack onto deck. Amp racks don't need to move.
Runs hooked together get over 50 feet, no problem. And I used to worry about speaker cables haha .
I keep a pair of high $ audiophool cables, along with old expensive DACs, and other high priced electronics I acquired during my 'purist years'... in my closet of shame !!
Just to make sure I'm reminded to concentrate 100% on nothing but solid basic engineering, and have at laugh at myself.

Anyway, hope twas of interest.
I'm all music...no HT, bass pretty much ends at f-3 for me.
Right now, I'm using the blue horns with sealed subs. Same 18" drivers, two sealed boxes stacked on each other.
Evaluating the sealed with transform vs ported thingy.. Oh, and I'm all music...no HT....bass pretty much ends at mid 20Hz f-3 for me.

 

[smygolf]

Thanks for the interest. I've been a bit reluctant to go into more details, thinking my system is too much of my own thing, that very few would have interest in.
But also keep thinking, what the heck...the thread is about nightclub speakers, so why not go into it, what I've to to do to get to where I'm at.. I know what I've built will fit very few, but hopefully it's at least a bit interesting.

I'm continually testing different DIY synergy/MEH versions with different DIY subs. The synergies have all used either a B&C or BMS 1.4" coax compression driver; and the subs all use the 18" BMS 18n862. The straight-sided conical synergy horns have varied in size and the horn wall angles which established the constant directivity H&V angles.

The size of the horn determines how low in frequency they hold the constant directivity. Which means big matters.

Here's two of the latest version as shown in my previous pic, but with them sitting of different subs. The blue horn has the CD, four 4" mids, and two 10" lows....a 4-way.
It's 90x60, 36" wide, holding horizontal pattern down to about 300Hz.
I have 3 of them for 3-ch LCR, and 3 of the ported subs below them which are tuned f-3 at 26Hz
White horn has CD, four 4"mids, two 12"lows, and two 18" extended lows...a 5-way...and still needs a sub lol. The sub under it is a double 18" with 12" dia down firing ports.
Tuned around f-3 @23Hz



View attachment 510596


You can see both subs have wheels. A big part of my enjoyment and testing, is to be able to easily move the big stacks around, especially to roll them outdoors onto a deck.
Listening outdoors, measuring outdoors...it's been a prime factor in the evolution of my DIY. Lord how glorious outdoors can be.


Also pls note I build for standing ear height...no more seated couch stuff for me. (I keep some full range electrostats for that.) I'd build even higher if I could roll them through the patio doors. Speakers simply sound better up off the floor, and the higher up they go...imo.

All are set up active DSP, with FIR and IIR...mainly FIR to achieve linear phase (as for ease of tuning, as for whether audible or not). Used QSC network amps and Q-SYS Cores. Dante signal flow. Any PC in the house can stream via Dante Virtual soundcard. Any PC tablet or IOS device can me made to be a remote with whatever one would like to control.

Which really helps with A/B comparisons. It's easy to run both the blue horn and white horn above, from the same remote, instantly switching between them.
And all speaker processing can be instantly silently switched....even complete sets of FIR filters swap instantly silently.

Speaker cables...speakon handles 1,2, or 4 channels per cable. Connector snap cables together for rolling sub and main stack onto deck. Amp racks don't need to move.
Runs hooked together get over 50 feet, no problem. And I used to worry about speaker cables haha .
I keep a pair of high $ audiophool cables, along with old expensive DACs, and other high priced electronics I acquired during my 'purist years'... in my closet of shame !!
Just to make sure I'm reminded to concentrate 100% on nothing but solid basic engineering, and have at laugh at myself.

Anyway, hope twas of interest.
I'm all music...no HT, bass pretty much ends at f-3 for me.
Right now, I'm using the blue horns with sealed subs. Same 18" drivers, two sealed boxes stacked on each other.
Evaluating the sealed with transform vs ported thingy.. Oh, and I'm all music...no HT....bass pretty much ends at mid 20Hz f-3 for me.

BMS 18n862, there we have a gem

 

[Waxx]

Scott Hinson, a very reputed speaker designer made an open source MEH design that is well studied and documented: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/scott-hinsons-meh-build-thread.430614/ and https://www.facebook.com/DIYRM/post...-supporting-files-the-bc-3-w/636200011629136/ for all info

 

[Matt S]

I have fond memroies of the Funktion One system in The End nightclub in London, which sadly closed down many years ago.

That, and of course the Martin Audio stacks in Ministry of Sound's box room, a system which never ran anywhere near its max potential. It was so clean sounding (now being replaced after so many years).

More recently, Polygon Live in Crystal Palace park was sensational. A truly immersive experience as the crowd is surrounded by an L-Acoustics sound system meant for a capacity around 4 times greater. It was incredible- particularly when Jon Hopkins was playing, his clean, skillfull production allowing the system to shine. Bass levels were ridiculous!

 

[Chr1]

Thanks for the interest. I've been a bit reluctant to go into more details, thinking my system is too much of my own thing, that very few would have interest in.
But also keep thinking, what the heck...the thread is about nightclub speakers, so why not go into it, what I've to to do to get to where I'm at.. I know what I've built will fit very few, but hopefully it's at least a bit interesting.

I'm continually testing different DIY synergy/MEH versions with different DIY subs. The synergies have all used either a B&C or BMS 1.4" coax compression driver; and the subs all use the 18" BMS 18n862. The straight-sided conical synergy horns have varied in size and the horn wall angles which established the constant directivity H&V angles.

The size of the horn determines how low in frequency they hold the constant directivity. Which means big matters.

Here's two of the latest version as shown in my previous pic, but with them sitting of different subs. The blue horn has the CD, four 4" mids, and two 10" lows....a 4-way.
It's 90x60, 36" wide, holding horizontal pattern down to about 300Hz.
I have 3 of them for 3-ch LCR, and 3 of the ported subs below them which are tuned f-3 at 26Hz
White horn has CD, four 4"mids, two 12"lows, and two 18" extended lows...a 5-way...and still needs a sub lol. The sub under it is a double 18" with 12" dia down firing ports.
Tuned around f-3 @23Hz



View attachment 510596


You can see both subs have wheels. A big part of my enjoyment and testing, is to be able to easily move the big stacks around, especially to roll them outdoors onto a deck.
Listening outdoors, measuring outdoors...it's been a prime factor in the evolution of my DIY. Lord how glorious outdoors can be.


Also pls note I build for standing ear height...no more seated couch stuff for me. (I keep some full range electrostats for that.) I'd build even higher if I could roll them through the patio doors. Speakers simply sound better up off the floor, and the higher up they go...imo.

All are set up active DSP, with FIR and IIR...mainly FIR to achieve linear phase (as for ease of tuning, as for whether audible or not). Used QSC network amps and Q-SYS Cores. Dante signal flow. Any PC in the house can stream via Dante Virtual soundcard. Any PC tablet or IOS device can me made to be a remote with whatever one would like to control.

Which really helps with A/B comparisons. It's easy to run both the blue horn and white horn above, from the same remote, instantly switching between them.
And all speaker processing can be instantly silently switched....even complete sets of FIR filters swap instantly silently.

Speaker cables...speakon handles 1,2, or 4 channels per cable. Connector snap cables together for rolling sub and main stack onto deck. Amp racks don't need to move.
Runs hooked together get over 50 feet, no problem. And I used to worry about speaker cables haha .
I keep a pair of high $ audiophool cables, along with old expensive DACs, and other high priced electronics I acquired during my 'purist years'... in my closet of shame !!
Just to make sure I'm reminded to concentrate 100% on nothing but solid basic engineering, and have at laugh at myself.

Anyway, hope twas of interest.
I'm all music...no HT, bass pretty much ends at f-3 for me.
Right now, I'm using the blue horns with sealed subs. Same 18" drivers, two sealed boxes stacked on each other.
Evaluating the sealed with transform vs ported thingy.. Oh, and I'm all music...no HT....bass pretty much ends at mid 20Hz f-3 for me.

Fantastic. Awesome system indeed.
Congrats!

Looks vaguely Danley-esqe.
(A v good thing imo)

 

[Tell]

Thanks for the interest. I've been a bit reluctant to go into more details, thinking my system is too much of my own thing, that very few would have interest in.
But also keep thinking, what the heck...the thread is about nightclub speakers, so why not go into it, what I've to to do to get to where I'm at.. I know what I've built will fit very few, but hopefully it's at least a bit interesting.

I'm continually testing different DIY synergy/MEH versions with different DIY subs. The synergies have all used either a B&C or BMS 1.4" coax compression driver; and the subs all use the 18" BMS 18n862. The straight-sided conical synergy horns have varied in size and the horn wall angles which established the constant directivity H&V angles.

The size of the horn determines how low in frequency they hold the constant directivity. Which means big matters.

Here's two of the latest version as shown in my previous pic, but with them sitting of different subs. The blue horn has the CD, four 4" mids, and two 10" lows....a 4-way.
It's 90x60, 36" wide, holding horizontal pattern down to about 300Hz.
I have 3 of them for 3-ch LCR, and 3 of the ported subs below them which are tuned f-3 at 26Hz
White horn has CD, four 4"mids, two 12"lows, and two 18" extended lows...a 5-way...and still needs a sub lol. The sub under it is a double 18" with 12" dia down firing ports.
Tuned around f-3 @23Hz



View attachment 510596


You can see both subs have wheels. A big part of my enjoyment and testing, is to be able to easily move the big stacks around, especially to roll them outdoors onto a deck.
Listening outdoors, measuring outdoors...it's been a prime factor in the evolution of my DIY. Lord how glorious outdoors can be.


Also pls note I build for standing ear height...no more seated couch stuff for me. (I keep some full range electrostats for that.) I'd build even higher if I could roll them through the patio doors. Speakers simply sound better up off the floor, and the higher up they go...imo.

All are set up active DSP, with FIR and IIR...mainly FIR to achieve linear phase (as for ease of tuning, as for whether audible or not). Used QSC network amps and Q-SYS Cores. Dante signal flow. Any PC in the house can stream via Dante Virtual soundcard. Any PC tablet or IOS device can me made to be a remote with whatever one would like to control.

Which really helps with A/B comparisons. It's easy to run both the blue horn and white horn above, from the same remote, instantly switching between them.
And all speaker processing can be instantly silently switched....even complete sets of FIR filters swap instantly silently.

Speaker cables...speakon handles 1,2, or 4 channels per cable. Connector snap cables together for rolling sub and main stack onto deck. Amp racks don't need to move.
Runs hooked together get over 50 feet, no problem. And I used to worry about speaker cables haha .
I keep a pair of high $ audiophool cables, along with old expensive DACs, and other high priced electronics I acquired during my 'purist years'... in my closet of shame !!
Just to make sure I'm reminded to concentrate 100% on nothing but solid basic engineering, and have at laugh at myself.

Anyway, hope twas of interest.
I'm all music...no HT, bass pretty much ends at f-3 for me.
Right now, I'm using the blue horns with sealed subs. Same 18" drivers, two sealed boxes stacked on each other.
Evaluating the sealed with transform vs ported thingy.. Oh, and I'm all music...no HT....bass pretty much ends at mid 20Hz f-3 for me.

Tbh this is interesting for home audio as well, not just night club stuff. You got speakers with very well controlled directivity which everyone interested in audio should want! Sure 90 degrees in width is maybe a bit lower than want some people want, but from what I can tell most people with using 60/90 MEH in their home do love them, and I most certainly is a bit jealous of yours

 

[Waxx]

You can make a MEH with narrower directivity, but most don't like it (has been done on DIYaudio.com). The Scott Hinson is one of the best I know and well documented, altough i don't like the porting on the back (to much influence by the room). But it was needed to make the horn going down to <100Hz so you can couple it to a sub without having an enormous horn. The one by Gnarly does not go that low because of that. You can go that low if you make your horn 1m wide or more, but that may not be practical or fit a standard living room. It's always choosing which compromise you make to get there...

 

[Chr1]

On the subject of MEHs. One of the local clubs, here in Edinburgh had a Danley system installed a few years back.

Used to be a bit of a regular but unfortunately my clubbing days are now behind me... but if I ever venture out again I'll have to check it out.

Link here

Edit : My partner says that when I move, I should probably look for an old underground bunker, as I like to play loud.

Possibly kitted out with something like the above...or @gnarlys rig.

Perhaps we need another thread :

Where, why and what?

If you could...

 

[gnarly]

BMS 18n862, there we have a gem

Truly. I got lucky going with it after seeing Josh Ricci's DIY's on data-bass. Any sub design I've built with it.... sealed, ported, single, double, push-push opposed, push-pull opposed,...... have all been so easy to tune to excellent results. It's a better driver than I am a DIYer !!

Tbh this is interesting for home audio as well, not just night club stuff. You got speakers with very well controlled directivity which everyone interested in audio should want! Sure 90 degrees in width is maybe a bit lower than want some people want, but from what I can tell most people with using 60/90 MEH in their home do love them, and I most certainly is a bit jealous of yours

Thx Tell. Yep, a lot of folks like wider than 90 degrees width...the envelopment crowd it seems. I guess taste in music has much to do there, with classical no doubt liking more envelopment. For me, preferring studio tracks, 90 deg constant directivity works better.
I've built synergy/MEHs at tight as 60x60, but that was a little too tight for me.. The big white horn i showed is a 75x60.

On the subject of MEHs. One of the local clubs, here in Edinburgh had a Danley system installed a few years back.

Thx for showing. The blue horn in my post is very similar to the club's main SH-46's hanging up by the subs. I'm sure you can imagine what 3 of them in my room running LCR, each sitting on a double 18 sub can do

One thing I should add about the foray into truly high power sound.... I think the ability to EQ as SPL is raided is mandatory.
Between equal loudness curves changing, and room absorption varying as SPL is increased, there's no way around bypassing at least having high and low shelving available.
Room absorption across frequencies is simply not linear ime. It is continuous up to a point, then breaks up.
Also, the simple differences in tonality from track to track need EQ.
Loud without distortion or compression is certainly good, but tonality must be pleasing too, or it will still sound unpleasantly loud....imo/ime

 

[dasdoing]

One thing I can guarantee, it is not loudness.

Here in brazil is carnaval atm. gigantic trucks with gigantic sound systems.
What I always hear is mids.......mids and transients.

I have 8" studio monitors, and I have 2 PA speakers with compression drivers. I pair both these with a subwoofer, so it is not the bass.
I can't reproduce these sharp transients with the studio monitors no matter what I do. it sounds like the transients die inside the cabinet.
imo it's all about the compression drivers. very powerfull dome speakers might be able to keep up (never heard one) but compression drivers have the power for those transients.

 

[norman bates]

Some have thought, the compression driver's "sharp leading edge".

 

[audiofooled]

This short video by Tom Danley may offer some insight, as it explains synergy horn's acoustic crossover, how that lowers distortion and how the drivers couple in a special way with a lack of comb filtering:

 

[norman bates]

Sure.
24db L\R crossover I think.
Drivers within 1\4 wavelength at crossover.
Point source.
Horn loading down in the mid tweet.