Nightclub speakers - what makes them sound like they do?

[Spkrdctr]

The only sound I like better than a good nightclub, is live-amplified in small to medium venues, indoors or out..
By nightclub, I mean recorded, dance type music. I've worked hard at being able to at least have excellent nightclub sound at home, and if it weren't for live stage backlines and drums etc, separating sound sources, I think I'm damn close to matching small live too.
Like every one has said.....formula is straightforward.. boatload of subs, compression drivers on horns/waveguides, and mid-bass & mids with the balls to keep up.
And the amp racks and dsp processing....
Forget the room....just overpower the damn thing... LOL
Depending, I've been running either a stereo rig or a 3 ch LCR. Each stack a main over a sub.
All DIY, all built with 1.4" coaxial compression drivers on synergy type horns. Typically Six to eight 18's in ported subs. 10-20kW.
Of course, rig doesn't get really cranked other than on right occasions...but when surfs up !!

Here's an example of some speakers..

Oh...dsp and latency. Not an issue at all I think. Most dsps, particularly less expensive ones, have little to no latency.
Expensive ones may have some latency,...... if they have FIR capability and it's being utilized.
That's one of the things that makes BSS, Lake, Q-SYS, ect cost $$$.....the ability to have latency (FIR)....not their lack of latency.

View attachment 510070

Good Gosh! That is seriously end game stuff right there. I believe in massive overkill most of the time and I have owned overkill and super nice home systems but DANG! I bow to your level of amazing. That pic has me drooling. All I need to do is win the lottery! Sir, I respect you and your system. Well done!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Originally, all music was live... for centuries! Recording was a way to approximate the music at home. That makes the "original live" performance the reference. When I first got interested in audio and started reading hi-fi magazines, all of the audiophiles were older guys listening to classical. It's still pretty-much impossible to reproduce the sound an orchestra and a concert hall in your living room. And personally, I wouldn't want to hear an orchestra (or a rock band) in my living room, even if they would fit.

Now, most "modern" music is "created" in the studio so there's no live reference. The Beatles famously gave-up performing live and started creating music that couldn't be performed live. One of the reasons was that they couldn't get good sound live, and they could barely hear themselves over the screaming girls. Sound systems are a lot better these days, musicians have in-ear monitors to hear themselves... and the girls don't constantly scream.

The song Frankenstein by The Edgar Winter Group was named from the way it was pieced-together from several different recording sessions. Of course a lot of music is created similarly. Most music in movies and on TV is totally MIDI and totally created in software.

Now, you could say the sound in the studio (after mixing & mastering) is the reference.

Some music is still best live, depending on the music and the venue. Amplified rock sometimes sounds best outdoors with only artificial reverb. Live music in "small clubs" can sound pretty bad depending on the music and performers. But if they know how to adapt to the acoustics they should be able to get good sound.

I've got a shelf full of concert recordings on DVD (and one or two Blu-Rays) and most of it sounds great in surround sound. But these recordings are close-mic'd and multi-tracked so technically they are studio-like, except the musicians are playing together at the same time, there are fewer "studio tricks", and some room sound and audience noise is mixed-in.

Frankenstein is my go to test track for pushing speakers at high SPLs. Do the tweeters hang in there? Can I hear all the different layers in the track. Do the sounds turn into buzzy or one note sounds? If it is quite loud with the detail available in that track, then I know I have a winner pair of speakers.You do have to take the the possibility that a tweeter may not make it through the impromptu test... But it is worth it. If my neighbors three houses down can hear Frankenstein like it is in their living room then I have the test volume just about right, 10 or 11 !!! I admit that I have used hearing protection in some tests........

 

[gnarly]

Good Gosh! That is seriously end game stuff right there. I believe in massive overkill most of the time and I have owned overkill and super nice home systems but DANG! I bow to your level of amazing. That pic has me drooling. All I need to do is win the lottery! Sir, I respect you and your system. Well done!

Thank you Sir !
Since I'm DIY and buy used prosound processing and amps, for about the amount of money as say a new pair of Salon2, I get a system on par with it for SQ, and leagues above it for dynamics, SPL, and bass power & extension.
Although, it has also taken a tremendous amount of time, energy, and expense to learn how to make good measurements and design the multi-way processing.
Not to mention the shop / woodworking side of the effort and expense.
What can I say, other than a labor of love ... and of audio ....

 

[Chr1]

It definitely looks like an awesome system you have built there. Very curious to know more about it, if possible?

 

[Rocky Maine]

"Nightclub speakers - what makes them sound like they do?"

Alcohol

 

[Gary_G]

Nightclub speakers - what makes them sound like they do?

Alcohol

 

[Flaesh]

Alcohol

I was at a club on Sunday. No alcohol or drugs. The sound was pretty good.

I remember the thread about speakers. But setup matters too. For example, Suffocation sounded way better than several other bands at the same fest.

Underground bands often sound worse on recordings. Could this be due to poor production using small monitors in a bedroom studio?

 

[Gary_G]

I don't do clubs, but was at a concert last year and the acoustics and sound engineering was terrible. Actually left at intermission to protect my hearing. Fast forward to another venue, very different, and smaller but the first thing I noticed were all the acoustic panels. Probably was the best concert I have heard indoors.

 

[tineared]

It's all about the speakers...

 

[Palmer]

Posted this before, best system I had the fortune to experience, Richard Long and Associates. Studio 54 amongst other venues.

Cheers

 

[sigbergaudio]

Most play nowhere loud enough to get that concert/club sound. Doesn't matter how many subs you have if you don't play loud. Second, many overemphasize the low end. You need plenty of energy from 50-200hz, pushing the very low end masks the midbass and reduces slam.

 

[Tell]

A DJ once told me that nightclubs are in mono because there is no point of stereo in a nightclub. Is this true?

I'd say not true, at least not for the parties (both indoor and outdoor) I've been to over the years. The psytrance being played there use lots of width in the mixes and killing that would make you miss half the fun!

 

[audiofooled]

Large room acoustics is a big part of the perception, I would think. Very clean bass and even coverage is much easier to achieve, naturally having a lot of low frequency sources is closely associated, which then leads to low distortion. This in turn adds to the clarity of the rest of the spectrum, provided that directivity is more or less constant.

At home you need much control over room modal behavior and a system with good mid bass capability, which is hugely underrated in domestic loudspeakers, IMO.

Constant directivity is giving you an upper hand when dealing with small room reflections. Having reached that, I would say you don't even need KW's of power at home, with good time alignment. Feeling your body acting as an acoustic absorber but still perceived to be comfortably loud, is the key. Long term, as well as short term SPL may vary a lot depending on room reflections, distortion, power compression... It's the perception that the room is NOT being overpowered, otherwise it will be too loud before ever becoming tactile. It's the clarity and tonal balance being maintained through lack of offending specular reflections and power compression. And, did I say mid bass?

 

[Tell]

Most play nowhere loud enough to get that concert/club sound. Doesn't matter how many subs you have if you don't play loud. Second, many overemphasize the low end. You need plenty of energy from 50-200hz, pushing the very low end masks the midbass and reduces slam.

Yeah my experience is that they often overemphasize especially the mid/upper bass which makes it sound a bit thick/muddy. I've heard some systems where they keep that down and to me it sounds just so much cleaner and better. I have much less issues with a bit of excessive low bass though, bring that deep ompf please!

 

[Waxx]

I'd say not true, at least not for the parties (both indoor and outdoor) I've been to over the years. The psytrance being played there use lots of width in the mixes and killing that would make you miss half the fun!

I think you're fooled, i've been the engineer for tonnes of psy and goa trance parties in the past in Belgium and surroundings and all were set up in mono...

 

[doctorjuggles]

Loving the discussion so far, thank you everyone. Some really beautiful setups being shared too, I'm very envious.

It's also interesting to hear the Funktion One kit being mentioned on more than one occasion. I must admit to a bias towards them, as they're the ones I first remember finding out about (The End pretty much kitted the entire three dancefloors out in them and the club-oriented stuff has an industrial beauty about it - along with excellent sound.)

I looked into their smaller passive speakers (I don't have a huge space to cover, but also not a huge amount of room to work with.) My major issue/concern is that finding and auditioning that kind of thing is pretty difficult (and I say this as someone who lives within an easy journey of central London, so it must be doubly frustrating for many other people.) That said, I think their smaller passive line (or something similar) is likely to be my most suitable "compromise" solution. I still want it to be capable when I want to sit down and listen, but when I'm there alone or with my DJing friends, it would be great to get more of the mid-and-high-end up to our ear level while we're standing

As I mentioned in the OP, I'm interested in the discussion itself as much as truly finding a solution that would work in my room - I'm under no illusions that if I made any changes it would result in a nightclub feel. But we're all here trying to find something, right?

Something that interests me was @sigbergaudio commenting on the midbass range. I think this is key for slam, but I also think it's true of the entire spectrum. Even response at varying heights is a big challenge and auditory masking can be the enemy of the clean sound I have in mind. (I'm aware that many nightclubs actually have terrible sound, but I'm not referring to those.) I actually have the low end completely covered in the room (controlling it is another issue, but from an SPL perspective I have no concerns about reproducing anything below 100Hz.)

I think, in summary, I need to create a more even response with a wider and taller "sweetspot" higher up the frequency response but, as I say, even if I never change a thing, I'm really enjoying the discussion! Thanks everyone

 

[Tell]

I think you're fooled, i've been the engineer for tonnes of psy and goa trance parties in the past in Belgium and surroundings and all were set up in mono...

I've been listening to that specifically and I do hear stereo stuff, I mean the difference between mono and stereo is quite substantial so it's easy to hear, especially outdoors where there's no room to mess up the sound. I've also set up some PA systems myself in stereo.
I don't see why you would want to deprive your audience of the proper experience?

 

[Waxx]

I've been listening to that specifically and I do hear stereo stuff, I mean the difference between mono and stereo is quite substantial so it's easy to hear, especially outdoors where there's no room to mess up the sound. I've also set up some PA systems myself in stereo.
I don't see why you would want to deprive your audience of the proper experience?

Setting up in stereo is that depriving, because on the dancefloor, only one is in the stereo sweetspot, certainly on bigger raves. That's why it's always in mono, even with two towers like a stereo setup. Was is not the mind altering substances, common on that kind of events, that gave you that "stereo image"?

 

[Tell]

Setting up in stereo is that depriving, because on the dancefloor, only one is in the stereo sweetspot, certainly on bigger raves. That's why it's always in mono, even with two towers like a stereo setup. Was is not the mind altering substances, common on that kind of events, that gave you that "stereo image"?

I'm rarely that intoxicated I do get it at larger festivals where the distance between the stacks can be very large that one would run it in mono, but at smaller gatherings I don't see any reason? Most of the people will be in spots where you can clearly hear both speakers so why not run it in stereo?

 

[Mart68]

I'm rarely that intoxicated I do get it at larger festivals where the distance between the stacks can be very large that one would run it in mono, but at smaller gatherings I don't see any reason? Most of the people will be in spots where you can clearly hear both speakers so why not run it in stereo?

I've been at smaller (100 or less people) DJ events where the PA was just two speakers - in stereo. That does happen. Or did, not been to such a thing in decades.