Nice Female Rock Band! The Warning

[Doodski]

I don't find much wrong with Amir's initial post, but it's still interesting that the word "Female" must be included in the title. Would anyone even mention "male" in the title if all the band members were men, and would anyone call it a "Nice Female and Male Rock Band!" if there was a mix of both men and women in the band?

I find it interesting that anytime somebody uses one of the two gender terms that they are sometimes scrutinized and made to feel as if they are doing something incorrectly. It's become nauseating and trivial but the agenda must roll on I guess.

 

[Axo1989]

I don't find much wrong with Amir's initial post, but it's still interesting that the word "Female" must be included in the title. Would anyone even mention "male" in the title if all the band members were men, and would anyone call it a "Nice Female and Male Rock Band!" if there was a mix of both men and women in the band?

I have a book suggestion written by Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth. The title of the book is Girl in a Band and was named so because she often got questioned throughout her whole career about how she felt "being a girl in a band".


The “girl in a band” reading of women’s musical worlds is clearly a rhetorical opening salvo, but one that Gordon reports (in her 2015 memoir Girl in a Band and elsewhere) was formative to her identity as a woman playing music, most famously in Sonic Youth. She felt objectified and that her complexity as a whole person was compromised, stashed under a reductive label of woman (i.e., the girlfriend, the eye candy). For any human being, stereotyping is terrifying and deeply horrible. But the girl-in-a-band myth has been unraveling—in both women’s production of music and women’s writing about music—for many decades.

Oh great suggestion, I didn't know about it. I do like Sonic Youth a lot. The quote is entirely on point.

On the thread subject line and band, I agree. The fact they are three sisters is more notable and rare. We have Haim also, and probably some others. A thread on sibling bands would be pretty interesting.

 

[Doodski]

A thread on sibling bands would be pretty interesting.

That is interesting for sure... a repository of YouTube and other sources of music videos to check out.

 

[Taiga]

In the videos posted here of The Warning, the musicians are actually dressed very conservatively by pop/rock standards. Even their body language and gestures seem to flow from the music and emotion rather than an attempt to sexually arouse. I see far more flagrant desires for sexual attention just walking around in public.

I don’t know how anyone can coordinate singing with drumming with such finesse. Very talented musicians and singing, but I find the overall sound to be fatiguing.

 

[amirm]

Very talented musicians and singing, but I find the overall sound to be fatiguing.

Lot of metal music is that way to be in the medium to long term. All that guitar distortion eventually tires the mind.

 

[amirm]

I'm well aware of LDR's success, but that song and the video depiction is about doomed, self-destructive relationships. Reading it as sexual invitation to men would be weird, a level of gaslighting that boggles the mind.

What? I am talking visuals here. You think having that stage love making scene has another purpose than to appeal to sex hunger in viewers??? You make no sense there.

You appear to argue that expressions of sexuality depicted are by women for men? Taken to the (not uncommon) extreme some men think that simply by existing in public, women invite a sexual response.

Nonsense. I doubt that LDR plays love making in public as part of her everyday life. It is there to sell music. It is supporting act and directly so. On that last bit, it is your two who claim the music video I posted is for creepy old men into sex. If you are going to read that into that video, you sure has heck have zero argument about examples I posted where sexual acts are directly shown and are part of the overall presentation.

What did you think the third video was about?

Anything but the music itself.

Arca is a trans woman, I'm quite certain her body of work, performances and videos re gender and sexuality are entirely different from a likely superficial reaction implied. But elaborate if you like, I'm not sure where you were going there..

Sexuality was part and parcel of the videos I showed. You listen to that music. You have zero awareness of how essential these artists think sex is to their success in music.

Then there is this odd notion that it was the last generation that cared about sex in music and not the current. This is totally backward. It was Madonna that started this trend with grinding scenes in live concerts and it has now been taken to extreme. I mean look at at this Beyonce music video from the first seconds:

This is the artist that is part of the current generation and brings sex in front and center. And you want to put this influence of sex at our feet?

 

[pseudoid]

Thank you for the flashbacks, @amirm,
I had never heard TaylorSwift before, good voice but...

Great female voices are like jewels to behold. The ones that are driven by ClassA vocal cords are even more impressive!
I don't mind being so subjective, but I prefer my music straight up, and avoid watching the supporting videos - that do something to my enjoyment of the music.
Usually, I put youtube music videos in a background page, so that there is no spoilage of the music.
I even hesitate to link to youtube because others end-up judging both the music and video.

 

[Chrispy]

As I said in the private convo you initiated but apparently lost interest in, there's not doubt pop (and rock) stars and groups may well trade on sex appeal. But I wasn't kidding about a generation gap. I was a child last century and a teenager for the first decade of this one, for 70s and 80s rock references I dive into my parents' taste (my mum remembered the Pretenders) which is entirely cool. There was certainly an explosion of female artists from the late 70s. I'm not a fan of blues-based rock (to put it another way, I like the rock but not the roll) so that bluesy Led Zeppelin stuff is almost as bad as country to my ear (otoh the angle Houses of the Holy takes on that stuff is not bad at all). But I didn't grow up with it and if you did you'll have a different feeling for rock music I imagine.

So some recent rock'n'rollers playing to sexist tropes looks more like Stockholm syndrome to me. Ok I'm not always enamoured of mainstream and a Disney product like Miley breaking out into same isn't going to have initial appeal. Previous generations certainly internalised the male gaze because that was the only perspective on offer. Obviously some still do. of course you can find examples galore.

But I did actually say I was hard pressed to think of a female artist/group that I like a lot that writes/performs/dresses to please men. I did subsequently think of Babymetal but looking at my list of most played stuff per Apple Music I can see (from the top) Arca, Charli xcx, Banshee, Cherry Glazerr, Poppy, Swan Meat, yeule, Coucou Chloe, Jack Off Jill, MIA, FKA twigs, Gurldoll, Alice Glass, Kelsey Lu, Lana Del Rey, London Grammar, Agnes Obel ... so to the extent that you addressed that question to me, then not really for men (for people, sure). Where does that leave things?

LOL that listing of bands from your most played list, the only one I know of is Lana Del Rey.....I'm definitely more Led Zeppelin era

 

[Chrispy]

What? I am talking visuals here. You think having that stage love making scene has another purpose than to appeal to sex hunger in viewers??? You make no sense there.


Nonsense. I doubt that LDR plays love making in public as part of her everyday life. It is there to sell music. It is supporting act and directly so. On that last bit, it is your two who claim the music video I posted is for creepy old men into sex. If you are going to read that into that video, you sure has heck have zero argument about examples I posted where sexual acts are directly shown and are part of the overall presentation.


Anything but the music itself.

Sexuality was part and parcel of the videos I showed. You listen to that music. You have zero awareness of how essential these artists think sex is to their success in music.

Then there is this odd notion that it was the last generation that cared about sex in music and not the current. This is totally backward. It was Madonna that started this trend with grinding scenes in live concerts and it has now been taken to extreme. I mean look at at this Beyonce music video from the first seconds:

This is the artist that is part of the current generation and brings sex in front and center. And you want to put this influence of sex at our feet?

Elvis Presley did some grinding....got him in trouble, too. Mild by today's standards, but....

 

[Axo1989]

What? I am talking visuals here. You think having that stage love making scene has another purpose than to appeal to sex hunger in viewers???

Of course it does, it depicts the narrative of the song. It isn't arbitrary or gratuitous. There is sensuality and beauty (and a little darkness) in the video for sure, but it is indeed directed at "viewers" rather than constructed for the male gaze. I'll go further and note that her initial viral fame came very much from those early videos, which expressed/encapsulated the poetics of the songwriting. Reading the visuals entirely in isolation would be misguided and ahistorical.

Nonsense. I doubt that LDR plays love making in public as part of her everyday life. It is there to sell music. It is supporting act and directly so. On that last bit, it is your two who claim the music video I posted is for creepy old men into sex. If you are going to read that into that video, you sure has heck have zero argument about examples I posted where sexual acts are directly shown and are part of the overall presentation.

This is a bit incoherent, but I can see what's going on: you are shadow boxing (or just confusing me with someone else). I didn't say anything of the sort about your original post (text and/or video). What I actually said was that your original post was "quite neutral". And the video isn't creepy/overly sexualised at all. If anything I'd criticise interpretations that fixated on sexuality in that example.

Then there is this odd notion that it was the last generation that cared about sex in music and not the current. This is totally backward. It was Madonna that started this trend with grinding scenes in live concerts and it has now been taken to extreme.

Haha of course you remember Madonna (who is my parents' age btw). Certainly don't blame Elvis.

 

[Axo1989]

LOL that listing of bands from your most played list, the only one I know of is Lana Del Rey.....I'm definitely more Led Zeppelin era

Haha the generation/s gap was a minor part of my point. I did listen to Houses of The Holy all the way through, I rather like it tbh. I may work back from there and see what I think now.

Elvis Presley did some grinding....got him in trouble, too. Mild by today's standards, but....

Snap. As soon as I read "grinding". Or ninja'd ... but that's cool.

 

[Chrispy]

Haha the generation/s gap was a minor part of my point. I did listen to Houses of The Holy all the way through, I rather like it tbh. I may work back from there and see what I think now.



Snap. As soon as I read "grinding". Or ninja'd ... but that's cool.

LOL. AFAIC Led Zeppelin rules, and that's not the best album I'd start from the beginning, tho. Growing up with something is definitely going to be different.

 

[Axo1989]

LOL. AFAIC Led Zeppelin rules, and that's not the best album I'd start from the beginning, tho. Growing up with something is definitely going to be different.

Absolutely. I started there because I know that album is a bit different, and I don't always warm to blues-based rock. I can get into it when it's good though. I happily enjoy PJ Harvey, etc.

 

[Chrispy]

Absolutely. I started there because I know that album is a bit different, and I don't always warm to blues-based rock. I can get into it when it's good though. I happily enjoy PJ Harvey, etc.

I think I've heard one or two things by PJ Harvey but will need to refresh my memory....but grew up on blues as well as Led Zeppelin (who "borrowed" a bit).

 

[Axo1989]

I think I've heard one or two things by PJ Harvey but will need to refresh my memory....but grew up on blues as well as Led Zeppelin (who "borrowed" a bit).

If you do refresh/explore, her Dance Hall at Louse Point with John Parish is somewhat slow blues-y, and I reckon her album To Bring You My Love is both good and accessible. Her earliest stuff is quite raw and likely an acquired taste, and her most recent stuff is a different style again.

 

[Chrispy]

If you do explore, her Dance Hall at Louse Point with John Parish is very slow blues-y, and her album To Bring You My Love is both good and accessible. Her earliest stuff is quite raw and likely an acquired taste, and her most recent stuff is a different style again.

I'll check it out. I went to quite a few clubs with old blues players, so her versions could be interesting

 

[restorer-john]

This thread just proves music appreciation by individuals is entirely arbitrary and subjective. Which is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be listening to homogenised identical sounding music.

I listened to a few seconds of each example of the artist/band in the OP's thread. That was enough. But, to each their own.

 

[Chrispy]

This thread just proves music appreciation by individuals is entirely arbitrary and subjective. Which is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be listening to homogenised identical sounding music.

I listened to a few seconds of each example of the artist/band in the OP's thread. That was enough. But, to each their own.

Curious, what rock bands tend to fill your taste buds well?

 

[pseudoid]

Marianne (Evelyn Gabriel) Faithfull (born 29 December 1946) is an English rock singer. She achieved popularity in the 1960s with the release of her hit single "As Tears Go By" and became one of the lead female artists during the British Invasion in the United States.

I wonder if @restorer-john would like:

"Broken English" is the seventh studio album by English singer Marianne Faithfull. It was released on 2 November 1979 by Island Records. The album marked a major comeback for Faithfull after years of drug abuse, homelessness, and suffering from anorexia. It is often regarded as her "definitive recording" and Faithfull herself described it as her "masterpiece".

That is exactly how I feel about "Broken English".

ADD: Someone should start a thread "Which Female Rocker Would @restorer-john Like", while he gives us hints each time we guess wrong.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I remember hearing way back when with the rock scene was dominated by males. Then came Pat Benatar which opened the floodgates to female rock stars. Some of these new singers we are discussing here remind me of her.

I saw Pat Benatar (with her husband and lead guitarist) at a tiny outdoor venue along with Styx when they got back together (all the original members) and she was terrific live! Of course so too was Styx, it was such a small venue that Tommy Shaw went into the audience to serenade a lady while he sung Babe, great event.