NHT C3 measurements by SoundStage/NRC

[txbdan]

They're currently at $322/each on Amazon so i pulled the trigger. Im currently testing a bunch of bookshelfs and love the C1, it's just too small in terms of energy and range. I'm hoping the C3 nails it.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Hi,

Glad you guys found our measurements. It's a very good speaker -- I have the pair here. Really, the only issue is the lack of bass -- it's fairly lightweight. But it has a spectacularly clear midband and good high-frequency energy without sounding bright.

Our reviewer Diego Estan's subjective observations are here:

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1035-nht-c3-carbon-fiber-loudspeakers

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[adm]

Thanks, Soundbot for your reply. I find that the more power you throw at the C-3s, the better they sound. They are also very unforgiving of poor recordings, which may be the majority especially if you listen to a lot of CDs. I generally do not find voices to be "hidden in the back," except if that was what the recording engineer intended. I find the vocals on this speaker to be just right, neither too forward nor too distant. If anything, they may be slightly forward, which was what has been reported in a few of the reviews of this speaker. You may also want to consider warmer electronics. I am very happy with the results I get with the Rega Elex-R, which has just shy of 100 watts per channel into the C3s 6 ohm load. If you find that too pricey, you might want to consider NAD or Marantz. This speaker is very neutral and is as musical as the signal you put into it. I went from the B and W 685 to the C-3. This is interesting, since the review referred to above by Diego Estan compares these two speakers. The C-3 comes out on top according to Estan, except in the bass. Yes, the B and W has more rounded bass but this is essentially coloration from the ported design. When there is bass on the recording, you will hear and feel it reproduced accurately and naturally on the C-3. This is where the acoustic suspension design of the C-3 excels. I do not find the C-3s to be thin sounding in my system. The neutrality of the C-3s may not appeal to everyone and that is okay. I went with the C-3s because I was tired of colored speakers and do not regret my decision.

 

[jhaider]

Hi,

Glad you guys found our measurements. It's a very good speaker -- I have the pair here. Really, the only issue is the lack of bass -- it's fairly lightweight. But it has a spectacularly clear midband and good high-frequency energy without sounding bright.

Our reviewer Diego Estan's subjective observations are here:

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1035-nht-c3-carbon-fiber-loudspeakers

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

The bass seems like a paradox, given that your reviewer found extension into the 30s, and I called it at about 50Hz in my (larger) room, though I also found enough output to pressurize a mode at ~30Hz. (Quasi- anechoic and listening position measurements available here.) It seems the bass perception comes from a leanness in the upper bass (say 75-150Hz). They fill out nicely with room correction!

While the thought didn’t occur to me at the time, given the voiced in leanness and wide even dispersion I bet C3 is a really good candidate for a Lyngdorf style setup: up against the wall to wall to maximize boundary reinforcement, with room correction to clean up the upper bass.

 

[ROOSKIE]

For 1.

If you watch Amazon they have the same speaker in gloss black, it changes price often, I purchased a new pair for $540.(270 each) it has been that low many times.
Fwiw I found them to be somewhat forward and slightly bright. I did not keep them. I could see some folks loving them. They are a bit bass shy and really need a sub in my mind.

 

[ROOSKIE]

The bass seems like a paradox, given that your reviewer found extension into the 30s, and I called it at about 50Hz in my (larger) room, though I also found enough output to pressurize a mode at ~30Hz. (Quasi- anechoic and listening position measurements available here.) It seems the bass perception comes from a leanness in the upper bass (say 75-150Hz). They fill out nicely with room correction!

While the thought didn’t occur to me at the time, given the voiced in leanness and wide even dispersion I bet C3 is a really good candidate for a Lyngdorf style setup: up against the wall to wall to maximize boundary reinforcement, with room correction to clean up the upper bass.

I also found them to be bass shy compared with other monitors I have around. The 6 inch woofer is also not particularly robust and I would cation adding any bass boost if you playback at higher volume. The drivers were deff on edge in my use cases with no added bass eq.
No way this extends into the 30's unless you have a small room.
I did like the quality of the bass. It was detailed. I do suggest trying a pair out as while not my cup of tea, they do have a certain something that many will like.
Ps that leanness you describe from 75-100 is likely your room - how far from the back and side wall are they?

 

[tifune]

I find that the more power you throw at the C-3s, the better they sound.

I have a Q about this; I see this hypothesis tossed around quite a bit and my 3 main guesses have always been:

More headroom for peaks
Amp operating at proportionately lower power typically equals lower distrotion (e.g. 40% vs 75% of rated output)
Salesman trying to sell a bigger amp (my own follow-the-money bias)

So I guess my Q is, let's say I have 2 amps - 150W and 300W. I adjust my magical pre as necessary so the speaker is drawing steady 100W. It sounds like you're saying the 300W amp will sound better, all other variables being equal?

 

[txbdan]

Not sure. I have a little NAD 3045 which is 60Wrms and 80Wpeak. Hopefully it'll do the trick in my small office.

 

[adm]

Good question. I found that there was a big difference going from 50 watts per channel to roughly 100 watts per channel. Beyond that, I could not answer from personal experience. I believe I read somewhere that someone got better results using a 250 watt amp with the C-3s but I could not give you a citation at this point. Remember that the difference between 150 watts and 300 watts is only 3 dB. The headroom explanation you gave is certainly a factor. Additionally, the relatively low impedance (6 ohms or less) of the C-3s must be considered, since the lower the impedance, the more current the speaker will draw. Also, because the C-3 has such a flat frequency response, the speaker will sound fuller at higher volumes. It will have less of the "leanness" that some people complain about. I do not think the "follow-the-money" theory holds water. Power is actually very cheap. I saw on Steve Guttenberg's "Audiophiliac" YouTube channel yesterday that Crown makes a 350 watt per channel (into 4 ohms) Class D power amplifier for $339.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

The bass seems like a paradox, given that your reviewer found extension into the 30s, and I called it at about 50Hz in my (larger) room, though I also found enough output to pressurize a mode at ~30Hz. (Quasi- anechoic and listening position measurements available here.) It seems the bass perception comes from a leanness in the upper bass (say 75-150Hz). They fill out nicely with room correction!

Hi...

You're right, bass perception depends on a lot more than just looking how far the graph goes down. For me, I always look at the "trend" of thee response. Let's say a speaker goes more or less flat to 30Hz, but through that range and up to, say, 120Hz, it's slightly lower in level than the energy at 1kHz, it'll likely sound lean. It's what I and others call the "tilt" of the response that has a lot to do with it -- and you want it tilting DOWNWARDS to the higher frequencies, not UPWARDS

With the NHTs, they are limited in their low output and they don't have much downward-facing tilt, which, IMO, makes them sound a bit anemic down low.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[txbdan]

Think life would be made good by adding a subwoofer? What other speakers would you consider in this $700ish class that one might consider alongside? I'm thinking about comparing B&W 607s with them.

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Think life would be made good by adding a subwoofer? What other speakers would you consider in this $700ish class that one might consider alongside? I'm thinking about comparing B&W 607s with them.

*IF* you can integrate the subwoofer well. That's the tricky thing.

As for recommendations -- too many to mention. You might want to visit two areas on the SoundStage! Network:

1) www.SoundStageAccess.com -- our "affordable" site, which has a lot of reviews of speakers in the price range you're looking.

2) I created an "affordable" area of our SoundStage! Hi-Fi site where I write about a lot of affordable speakers. It's called "System One":

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/system-one

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[jhaider]

Think life would be made good by adding a subwoofer?

Adding a subwoofer is dicey. Two smallish subs with smooth frequency response to at least 250Hz, placed near the mains (maybe in the corners behind them?), crossed at 120Hz, and with room correction applied would make a system that punches well above its weight.

What other speakers would you consider in this $700ish class that one might consider alongside?

Are the ELAC UniFi painted models in that price range? The base UniFi is much cheaper, but the vinyl wrap is cheap and ugly.

 

[adm]

Think life would be made good by adding a subwoofer? What other speakers would you consider in this $700ish class that one might consider alongside? I'm thinking about comparing B&W 607s with them.

Thank you!

I think you will find the NHT C-3 to be far superior to the B and W 607 and even the more expensive 606. In my opinion, the C-3 is more in the league of the B and W 700 series, which would run from around $1,500 to $2,500 per pair for stand mounting loudspeakers. I have had B and Ws in the past and found them to be overrated and overpriced. Other options better than the B and Ws in my opinion are the Ascend Sierra 1 and 2 and the Revel M 16. Ascend is an internet only company like NHT and I believe all of their loudspeakers are assembled in the United States, which is rare at this price range. Ascend, NHT, and Revel get high marks for accuracy on this site; B and W not so much.

 

[GelbeMusik]

Nice speaker, reasonably priced, literally High End engineering, I would say.

 

[txbdan]

I finally got my C3s earlier this week. They were stuck at UPS for 9 days! First world problems, admittedly.

I just finished a 10 speaker $300ish shootout and didn't come away fully satisfied. I threw these in the mix at twice the price (on sale) and while it blows up my shootout, i'm much happier for it. I don't have a lot of experience in "higher end" speakers, but these are incredible. I've never heard such clarity and transparency. Instead of hearing a hifi recording of music it sounds like the actual music coming out of thin air. No distracting tonal coloration, just music.

I intend to ship one off to Amirm for measurement next week.

Also FWIW, i did a comparison of close mic'ing the woofers on these four speakers. I was curious about where the C1s rolled off and how it compared with the C3s. I threw in the other two ported speakers (Q150 and Atom SE) for fun.

 

[Todd74]

I have a pair of C3’s in like-new condition for sale for $470 + shipping if anyone’s interested.

I auditioned these along with Dynaudio Excite X18’s, which probably wasn’t a fair fight, but the C3’s admirably held their own. Definitely an improvement over my B&W CM2’s in every regard. Better attack, bigger sound stage, and crazy transparency. Heard things in my music that I had no idea were there on the CM2’s.

 

[whazzup]

I finally got my C3s earlier this week. They were stuck at UPS for 9 days! First world problems, admittedly.

I just finished a 10 speaker $300ish shootout and didn't come away fully satisfied. I threw these in the mix at twice the price (on sale) and while it blows up my shootout, i'm much happier for it. I don't have a lot of experience in "higher end" speakers, but these are incredible. I've never heard such clarity and transparency. Instead of hearing a hifi recording of music it sounds like the actual music coming out of thin air. No distracting tonal coloration, just music.

I intend to ship one off to Amirm for measurement next week.

Also FWIW, i did a comparison of close mic'ing the woofers on these four speakers. I was curious about where the C1s rolled off and how it compared with the C3s. I threw in the other two ported speakers (Q150 and Atom SE) for fun.

Are these measurements and your 10 speaker shootout posted somewhere?

 

[txbdan]

Are these measurements and your 10 speaker shootout posted somewhere?

Sure, it's here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/3139232-300ish-bookshelf-shootout-another-one.html
The thread has gone to shit, but perhaps there are some nuggets in there.

 

[whazzup]

Sure, it's here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/3139232-300ish-bookshelf-shootout-another-one.html
The thread has gone to shit, but perhaps there are some nuggets in there.

Fantastic! You have the P3s and C1s as well, been wanting to see how they measure. Ok, will stop going off-topic now. Thanks again!