Newcomer seeking general advice and recommendations

[Artha]

Greetings, I'm completely new to listening to music intentionally and have no technically background. Having noticed that the latter seems to be true for a lot of audiophile influencers that Youtube keeps throwing at me, I thought it'd be best to ask for some pointers here, lest I go astray. I am sure that many of my questions have already been answered somewhere online but I fear that I wouldn't always be able to filter out scientific truth from all the noise (pun intended).

Here are the things I believe to have understood so far - please correct any misconceptions of mine and feel free to add on.

1. Cables are snake oil.
2. DACs have no sound of their own - audible differences only ever occur as a result of sub-standard engineering and will be visible in Frequency Response.
3. Hi-Res, too, is pure marketing and irrelevant for a regular listener, there is no need to go beyond 16-bit bit depth and 44.1 kHz sampling rate.
4. All that MQA adds to a device are licensing fees and nothing else.
5. What actually matters most in the audio chain are speakers (and thus should account for the biggest share of my budget) and their positioning (not applicable to me, I only use headphones)

I'm kind of unclear on amps and would be grateful for further explanations. Can those actually have "a certain sound"? What is frequency matching and is it relevant? And how about different types of amps - those tubes certainly look cool but do they do anything?

Finally, I'd appreciate some more specific hints. I have bought a Hifiman Edition XS and a Jcally JM6 Pro to go with it. Having only ever used cheap no-name "gaming" headsets in my life, this setup already made for an epiphany. What's the next logical step?
Do I get a DAC/Amp combo and if so, which one? Right now I'm considering the Topping DX5 II, the Fiio K7 and the ifi Zen v3 - personally I think the latter looks really nice (and aesthetics do matter to me, at least to some extent) but I also saw that it didn't score too high in the measurements conducted by Amir.
Is it significantly worse than the others in terms of performance (beyond probably being overpriced)?

Alternatively, should I go for separate components and get something like the Topping D50 III / A50 III stack?

Or should I simply save the money for an eventual headphone upgrade down the line?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Artha! Welcome to ASR.

I'm kind of unclear on amps and would be grateful for further explanations. Can those actually have "a certain sound"?

If an Amp has a sound, then it's a bad Amp.

An Amp's purpose is to amplify, not to color.

Most Amp manufacturers on the market have understood this, but there are certainly some Amp designs out there which insist on coloring the sound.

What's the next logical step?
Do I get a DAC/Amp combo and if so, which one?

What are you looking for over your JM7?
Don't just buy stuff for the fun of it Always have a concrete plan.

Right now I'm considering the Topping DX5 II, the Fiio K7 and the ifi Zen v3 - personally I think the latter looks really nice (and aesthetics do matter to me, at least to some extent) but I also saw that it didn't score too high in the measurements conducted by Amir.
Is it significantly worse than the others in terms of performance (beyond probably being overpriced)?

Not in any way that could affect the listening experience.

 

[Artha]

Hey @staticV3, thanks for your reply!

If an Amp has a sound, then it's a bad Amp.

An Amp's purpose is to amplify, not to color.

Most Amp manufacturers on the market have understood this, but there are certainly some Amp designs out there which insist on coloring the sound.

Just to make sure I'm getting this right: while it is not their purpose, it is technically possible for an amp to colour sound, i.e. reviewers are not necessarily lying/holding false beliefs about this particular point?

What are you looking for over your JM7?
Don't just buy stuff for the fun of it Always have a concrete plan.

I'll freely admit, there is an element of consumerism to it and you are right to call it out! From a more practical point of view, I guess having the option to manipulate volume at the analog stage and being able to listen while away from the PC (by having the dedicated device or its remote elsewhere) would be nice.

 

[Apesbrain]

being able to listen while away from the PC

Move your music over to your phone.

Or, run a server on your PC and phone becomes a remote player.

 

[MAB]

Just to make sure I'm getting this right: while it is not their purpose, it is technically possible for an amp to colour sound, i.e. reviewers are not necessarily lying/holding false beliefs about this particular point?

Very few amps actually 'color' the sound. Those that do are exceptionally poor with very strange frequency response anomalies for example. The reviewers that claim many amps 'color' the sound aren't necessarily lying, they may be genuinely fooling themselves into believing they heard a difference where none exists. Some are outright making it up though, aka lying.

People have actually tested if amps really 'color' sound under controlled conditions, see page 78:
https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1987-01.pdf
People can't hear the differences readily, and if an amp does rise to the level of audible coloration, it typically has other serious issues.

It's exceptionally easy to hear differences that don't exist. People tend to fill in the gaps based on what they hear, not make comparative measurements with their ears. For example the Sapphire Group, audio pros that heard differences that actually didn't exist:

Audio Listening Test That Fooled the Hollywood Sapphire Group

Some of the most highly trained audiophiles in the industry were asked to do a blind “A-B” listening comparison test of two audio circuits. Were they able to hear a difference, or were they fooled?

www.audioholics.com

I'll freely admit, there is an element of consumerism to it and you are right to call it out! From a more practical point of view, I guess having the option to manipulate volume at the analog stage and being able to listen while away from the PC (by having the dedicated device or its remote elsewhere) would be nice.

Imagine that the companies and stores that sell you gear already know how easy it is to dupe a customer into thinking they need to spend massive amounts on amps and other things that don't make a difference in sound.

 

[staticV3]

Just to make sure I'm getting this right: while it is not their purpose, it is technically possible for an amp to colour sound, i.e. reviewers are not necessarily lying/holding false beliefs about this particular point?

Not necessarily, but most of the time they do.

If the Amps in question measure as transparent, but the reviewer claims fantastical differences in nuance or whatever, then you can safely assume that there is no difference in practice and what the reviewer claims to have heard was either caused by cognitive bias (placebo), or some sort of agenda.

being able to listen while away from the PC (by having the dedicated device or its remote elsewhere) would be nice.

When being away from the PC, would you want to listen from a streaming service, or from local files.

With dependence on or smartphone for storage/network, or completely standalone?

 

[Artha]

When being away from the PC, would you want to listen from a streaming service, or from local files.

With dependence on or smartphone for storage/network, or completely standalone?

Streaming service would be fine, I hardly have any local files.

I guess simply using my phone as @Apesbrain suggests might be the way to go but I still see some merit in the idea/goal of setting up a playlist and then sitting away from my PC, just listening and controlling volume via an amp's knob, with no distracting phone nearby.

 

[Paul7777x]

I’d also be certain that you’ll not be buying any speakers in the near future. That would alter the equation somewhat.

 

[hex168]

I'm not a headphone expert and will defer to others for specific recommendations, but you could use some EQ. There are measurements and recommended EQ settings for your headphones that would lead to an improvement. (Oratory, etc.) Easiest to try for free on your PC and Equalizer APO, then look into how best to fit EQ into your signal chain. If you are interested in crossfeed, that might be worth looking into as well. Finally, HTRF compensation can be done; take a look at the Virtuoso V2 standalone app for an example (can do EQ too). All these things will make real, audible changes, possibly be more "accurate," and you may like them.

 

[kemmler3D]

it is technically possible for an amp to colour sound, i.e. reviewers are not necessarily lying/holding false beliefs about this particular point?

Technically possible yes, but in the many cases, if you measure the output of the amp, the colorations reviewers describe hearing are nowhere to be found. Placebo effect is almost universal in this type of audio reviewing, which makes sites like ASR such a necessity.

If you end up looking at speakers, here's what you're going to want to think about before diving in:

1. How loud do you want to listen, and how far away from the speakers? (85dB SPL @ 1m is "pretty loud" for most people, 95dB is "really loud" and >100dB is "way too loud" and normally only sustained for short peaks)
2. How much space can you allocate to the speakers, and how much flexibility do you have in where they will go? How big can the speaker be, before it's too big for your use?
3. What's the room like? (dimensions, acoustic properties)
4. What's your budget?
5. Are you willing to look at secondhand stuff?
6. Are you really worried about equipment failure, or not that worried? "Active" speakers have amps built in, so less clutter, and also tend to have better sound quality by virtue of being able to use different kinds of filters for the crossover. Downside: if the amp fails, the speaker fails. Amps tend to fail more often than speakers. Something to think about. No right answer, opinions vary

For headphone listening, I'd suggest getting the DX5II as it includes EQ functionality, but whether you go with that one or not, the biggest impact on your listening experience beyond getting decent headphones will be EQ.

TL;DR headphones are often designed to hit a frequency response target that is perfect for the "average" listener, but the typical listener's ears are individually so different from the average that it's rarely actually perfect for any one person. The "last mile" of improving frequency response must be done either by A) trying a million different headphones until you find "the one" for your ears, or B) tweaking with EQ at an incremental cost of $0. My recommendation is option B.

An individual's ears matter to headphone response but not speaker response, because the headphone physically bypasses parts of your body (torso, head, parts of your ears) that are normally involved in acoustically filtering sound. The average headphone response targets attempt to compensate for that, but obviously they can't compensate for YOUR head and torso and ears, just in a general way.

 

[JeffS7444]

The science tells us that "good as it gets" sonics can be had pretty easily and affordably. But never fear, it's your hobby, and if you want to replace your gear on the basis of appearance and features, no one's going to stop you.

But the notion of combining say, a "warm" sounding amplifier and cables with "clinical" sounding headphones, is a crock: Often, all that's needed is a little equalization.

Cables matter, but good quality can be had pretty cheaply.

Tubes can be fun if you don't take them too seriously: A well-designed tube amplifier doesn't have any particular sound of it's own, and tube "rolling" is pretty much a waste of time unless your tubes are worn-out or faulty. Stock Beijing or Shuguang tubes are likely perfectly adequate.

High-res audio: Don't take our word for it, try an ABX comparison for yourself. You'll need free ABX software, a high-res music file, and free software which will let you convert to CD-quality or even lossy compressed files. Try not to cheat by watching data activity lights or lag times when loading larger files.

 

[JPA]

Many years ago Julian Hirsch (Stereo Review) measured a very expensive high-end amp that did not have a flat frequency response. I think it was a Mark Levinson, but I could be wrong. The frequency response rolled off very gradually as it went up in frequency. It was almost certainly deliberate to give the amp the "warm" sound that many audiophiles wanted. I don't know how common that was back then, since Hirsch hardly ever reviewed such expensive electronics. And I don't know if the practice persists today.

 

[Artha]

Thank you to everyone who replied with advice and remarks!

Quick update: I have decided to not give in to the urge to buy any shiny new gear just yet. To my ears the JCally+XS combo sounds more than adequate after all.
Instead I'll wait for the DX1 II to be released and give that some consideration, if, at that point, I really need/want a nice box with additional features on my desk. Seems like a financially more responsible move.

 

[Redacted]

You are in a recent golden era where great sound is inexpensive - all you need beyond electronics and source material are speakers that work well in your actual room. This may require trial and error.

 

[Purité Audio]

Practically any loudspeaker will ‘work’ in your room, but you may have to acoustically measure and implement any suggested filters.
EQ is included in many streamers, playback software and some loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[john61ct]

LOTS of "audiophiles" enjoy and actively seek out amps and preamps that are NOT "straight wire with gain" transparent.

Rolling op-amps, collecting historic tubes are hobbies unto their own.

This forum and 99% of its members scoff at such audiofoolishness

but it is unscientific to pretend those communities do not exist and do not enjoy spending their money that way.

Just as with relationships

"We’re all a little weird. And life is a little weird. And when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall into mutually satisfying weirdness—and call it love."

– Theodor "Dr Seuss" Geisel

...

Some people buy their gear just based on liking that particular sound, even knowing it's just the result of intentional distortion.

This remains very true for speakers and headphones.

EQ can be designed to make the measured response curves more "flat" but 99% of the time iutside of ASR world, just tweaked for preference.

 

[john61ct]

Off topic but I do love this science explainer's videos

Fluid dynamics and aerodynamics are her jam

A great point at the end about science in general

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7629281371579550989