Newbie to the forum and have a question...

[starkiller]

Have a W4S DAC 1 with reclocker. Looking to raise some funds due to an unexpected expense here at home and thought I would go the DAC route first. Have had many a DAC...Maverick, Rega, Neko, Schiit, Keces..etc...looking for "warmth" if possible. Read many a good thing about the Topping D30 and D50 but those have not been described as being "warm" but "detailed". any thoughts for me on the topping side of cheap cost? No DIY ideas due to my peripheral neuropathy in fingers and hands

thanks!

 

[BDWoody]

Have a W4S DAC 1 with reclocker. Looking to raise some funds due to an unexpected expense here at home and thought I would go the DAC route first. Have had many a DAC...Maverick, Rega, Neko, Schiit, Keces..etc...looking for "warmth" if possible. Read many a good thing about the Topping D30 and D50 but those have not been described as being "warm" but "detailed". any thoughts for me on the topping side of cheap cost? No DIY ideas due to my peripheral neuropathy in fingers and hands

thanks!

Welcome!

When you read subjective 'reviews,' what you are getting is the result of completely uncontrolled impressions that may have more to do with what the reviewer had for lunch than anything remotely detectable between different competently designed DAC's. Any of the well designed DAC's (Topping being one many like...I have 3) will be indistinguishable from each other if you match the output levels (By measurement, not by ear) and don't look. Sounds crazy, but maybe you can make money betting your friends who haven't figured it out yet.

Don't stress about the sound differences, focus on the features you want, and go from there would be my suggestion.

 

[starkiller]

Well, warmth is what I am after...I listen to a fair amount of classical and sometimes those flutes are just way too shrill for me...

 

[amirm]

Well, warmth is what I am after...I listen to a fair amount of classical and sometimes those flutes are just way too shrill for me...

You can fix that with EQ in your player. No DAC can provide warmth. Such terms are imagined by reviewers and audiophiles alike but has no basis in reality. DACs provide perfect frequency response which means the full spectrum is provided as is.

The shrill sound may also be a function of your speaker/headphone.

 

[Wombat]

You can fix that with EQ in your player. No DAC can provide warmth. Such terms are imagined by reviewers and audiophiles alike but has no basis in reality. DACs provide perfect frequency response which means the full spectrum is provided as is.

The shrill sound may also be a function of your speaker/headphone.

It may be the instrument or the musician or the recording. The term 'sometimes' in the OP is particularly relevant.

 

[watchnerd]

Well, warmth is what I am after...I listen to a fair amount of classical and sometimes those flutes are just way too shrill for me...

To increase warmth, try adding 1-2 dB of boost (how much depends on how wide your EQ is; if it's a PEQ, set it to a Q of about 1.50), at 220 Hz.

 

[Krunok]

Well, warmth is what I am after...

Never mind it's summer, just crank the heating together with volume and you'll have plenty of warmth. For the things to get even better, this unique method works with all DACs.

 

[Krunok]

To increase warmth, try adding 1-2 dB of boost (how much depends on how wide your EQ is; if it's a PEQ, set it to a Q of about 1.50), at 220 Hz.

Oh, so warmth is located at 220Hz of audio and not in IR specter of EM radiation anymore? Didn't know that..

 

[watchnerd]

Oh, so warmth is located at 220Hz of audio and not in IR specter of EM radiation anymore? Didn't know that..

220 Hz is the resonant frequency of sunlight.

How did you not know that?

 

[Krunok]

220 Hz is the resonant frequency of sunlight.

How did you not know that?

And here's how your advice to get wormth actually looks, in case you didn't know that.. I'm very suspiocious it would make any noticeable change in the sound.

 

[watchnerd]

And here's how your advice to get wormth actually looks, in case you didn't know that.. I'm very suspiocious it would make any noticeable change in the sound.

View attachment 31774

It's going to make more of a difference to the sound than switching between competently designed DACs, for sure.

And if it's not noticeable, tweak it either higher or broader.

 

[Krunok]

And if it's not noticeable, tweak it either higher or broader.

You really think this filter will act as a "warmth" tone control?

 

[watchnerd]

You really think this filter will act as a "warmth" tone control?

I don't understand what you're debating.

That EQ effects sound?

Or the meaning of the word "warmth" when it comes to audiophile vocabulary and translated into Hz?

If the latter, sure, there is room for debate, but the general consensus in recording engineering / mastering circles is that to subjectively increase / decrease "warmth", you want to adjust spectral balance in the upper bass / lower mid.

The other option is to use a tilt control.

 

[watchnerd]

Example:

http://blog.sonicbids.com/how-to-make-a-track-sound-warm-and-5-other-confusing-audio-terms

 

[Krunok]

I don't understand what you're debating.

That EQ effects sound?

Or the meaning of the word "warmth" when it comes to audiophile vocabulary and translated into Hz?

If the latter, sure, there is room for debate, but the general consensus in recording engineering / mastering circles is that to subjectively increase / decrease "warmth", you want to adjust spectral balance in the upper bass / lower mid.

The other option is to use a tilt control.

I don't think there is a consensus based on some research what "warm" soud actually means in terms of spectral balance. Maybe music producers have some clue about that when producing music, but outside of their branch certainly not. And I don't think we should accept subjective thoughts coming from Casey van Wensem (freelance composer, musician, and writer, author of the article you inked) as a reference in that matter.

 

[Wombat]

It could be hearing/brain processing of those sounds. In a hard-surfaced restaurant I find the clatter of dishes and cutlery very noticeable. Also the general background noise. Others don't seem to mind.
In a Jazz club(and at home) I don't find the characteristics of bright instruments a problem I accept that is an innate characteristic.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't think there is a consensus based on some research what "warm" soud actually means in terms of spectral balance. Maybe music producers have some clue about that when producing music, but outside of their branch certainly not. And I don't think we should accept subjective thoughts coming from Casey van Wensem (freelance composer, musician, and writer, author of the article you inked) as a reference in that matter.

It's simple:

Using EQ will affect sound, from subtle to overt depending on how much.

Using EQ will make more of a difference than switching between well engineered DACs.

I made a suggestion that is cost-free and common practice among mixers.

There are tons of sources you can look at that translate portion of the audio spectrum into vocabulary. But getting into a semantics debate about where in the audio spectrum "warmth" lives is probably best handled in a separate thread.

What I suggested to the OP will make a difference in the audio signal. And if it's too subtle, increase the boost or widen the peak.

 

[watchnerd]

It could be hearing/brain processing of those sounds. In a hard-surfaced restaurant I find the clatter of dishes and cutlery very noticeable. Also the general background noise. Others don't seem to mind.

Intrusion of background noise can be one of the common symptoms of having hearing issues. I've had this confirmed by an audiologist when I've had temporary eustachian tube blockage from sinus infections and had to get it dealt with.

You might want to get checked if it's been a while.

 

[Krunok]

I made a suggestion that is cost-free and common practice among mixers.

Are you a music producer or have professional experience with mixing music?

Introducing such non-linearities usually only makes sound worse.

Problem with most of the people is that they think they are doing a good thing when giving "friendly" advice outside of their competence, while in fact they are not as it usually makes things worse. We usually got offended when somebody tells us that simple truth that can easilly be proven, but the only thing we should be doing is simply stop making advices outside our area of competence, although we are doing it with good intentions. Because that exactly is the reason why road to hell is paved wtih them.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm very sure your correction would pass unnoticed in a blind test, so while it was cost free IMHO it is also worth that much. Btw, are you a music producer or have professional experience with mixing music?

Like I said, if you don't notice it, increase the boost or peak until you do.

It's better to start subtle.

I don't earn a living as a music producer, but I am a volunteer recording engineering assistant for local publicly funded symphonies and jazz clubs, basically any institution that accepts funding in the US from the National Endowment of the Arts.

Trying EQ will be more cost-free than trying different DACs.