Newbie seeking to find some answers on studio monitor hiss levels

[soundglutton]

Hey everyone! Newbie here so if this belongs in a different section, please let me know.

I've been reading the forums here for awhile, trying to find some info on hiss levels/self noise on several studio monitors. The only thing that was helpful was the graph showing the Brand vs Average self noise but it only shows the brand and not the specific model. Most of the other answers were vague or 'you have to do this, change that cable, etc.' which didn't help.

The only companies that even mention self noise from my research are Neumann (KH 80dsp with <20db (A) SPL) and Genelec (8010A, with <5db SPL). I've never heard these speakers in person so I have no reference as to how quiet (or noisy) that is, in relation to my current monitors, JBL LSR305P mk2. While I love the sound of my JBLs, the hiss gets in the way when working at low volumes, which is most of the time since I live in an apartment. And if you have super sensitive hearing like I do, you know what a nightmare that is.

The only places near me with studio monitors set up is Guitar Center. It was kind of hard to tell with all the other monitors powered on but I was able to get a general idea on a few. The monitors I checked out were: JBL LSR306P, Kali Audio LP6 V2, Adam T5V, Yamaha HS8, Mackie MR824, M-Audio (can't remember model), Genelec 8010A and a couple I haven't heard before. According to my ears, this was the order of noisiest to quietest: JBL, Adam, Kali, Genelec, Mackie, Yamaha and M-Audio. I can't really count the Genelecs because I think the speakers were blown.

Since I have the JBLs, it wasn't surprising to hear the JBL LSR306 being the noisiest. What was surprising was that the M-Audio was the quietest of them all, even quieter than the Yamahas and Mackies. I wasn't able to find any self noise specs on M-Audio's website on their studio monitors but their media reference monitor showed a signal to noise ratio of > 90 db (typical A-weighted). I was however able to find some spec on an older model M-Audio BX5 monitor that showed a 100 db (typical A-weighted) SNR. The JBLs have a 75dBA so I'm assuming that's why it's the noisiest.

At the moment, I'm considering the Mackie MR524, iLoud MTM and the Neumann KH 80dsp (though still not sure if I can afford this one). The Kalis were quieter than the JBL but not by much. The Yamahas are quieter than the Mackies but their highs kill my ears. The M-Audio just didn't sound neutral at all.

My question: does anyone know which of those three monitors I mentioned are the quietest? Are there other monitors that are considered very quiet that I haven't heard of before?

I'm assuming the Neumann is the quietest but I'd like to hear from actual owners of these monitors.

Thanks for reading!

 

[sweetchaos]

Did you see this?

Hiss (S&R) - 2021 04 30

Info Notes Link to main thread:,<a href="https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/</a>

docs.google.com

 

[soundglutton]

Did you see this?

Hiss (S&R) - 2021 04 30

Info Notes Link to main thread:,<a href="https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/</a>

docs.google.com

That's exactly what I was looking for. Do you know if there's an updated version with the newer monitors, like the Kali LP-6v2 & iLoud MTMs and so forth? Thanks!

 

[RayDunzl]

Here's what the hiss "looks like" on a JBL LSR 308

Broad rise above 1kHz and a peak around 15kHz

mic 1 inch from tweeter:

Speaker powered off (in case it was the "seashell" effect)

I listen to them from 10 feet so it's no issue for me.

 

[sweetchaos]

That's exactly what I was looking for. Do you know if there's an updated version with the newer monitors, like the Kali LP-6v2 & iLoud MTMs and so forth? Thanks!

Unlikely since they are too new.

This is the best source of info we have.

 

[Adi777]

Did you see this?

Isn't the result for JBL M2 disappointing? After all, for many people, it's SOTA and Endgame.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Is the power supply near other power supplies? Sometimes when you move or isolate it, it will quiet. I got an inexpensive headphone amp with a little hiss that is reduced when I move it away from the other 10 billion power supplies. I just like that it has a power button 1/8 and 1/4 outputs. I used to have a nice rack mounted one but only had one headphone plugged in at the time, not 8 so I sold it cause I didn't need it. And it's a signal to noise ratio thing. Almost any sound will make it irrelevant. Just a piano track and you wouldn't notice it. Not ideal, but do you have them on all the time? Can you actually hear the hiss with other things playing? My toy amp: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JV84FHZ

 

[Alchemist_]

My question: does anyone know which of those three monitors I mentioned are the quietest? Are there other monitors that are considered very quiet that I haven't heard of before?

I'm assuming the Neumann is the quietest but I'd like to hear from actual owners of these monitors.

Perhaps this is no longer relevant for you.
And I didn’t hear Neumann.
But, I heard m-audio bx8, jbl 308, yamaha hs8, mackie mr824 and presonus eris xt8.
For m-audio, the noise increases as the volume knob is raised.

From loudest to quietest: jbl > m-audio > mackie > yamaha > presonus.
I bought myself presonus eris xt8 and later esub8.

According to the noise, in my opinion, it is worth buying either a yamaha or a presonus.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Hey everyone! Newbie here so if this belongs in a different section, please let me know.

I've been reading the forums here for awhile, trying to find some info on hiss levels/self noise on several studio monitors. The only thing that was helpful was the graph showing the Brand vs Average self noise but it only shows the brand and not the specific model. Most of the other answers were vague or 'you have to do this, change that cable, etc.' which didn't help.

The only companies that even mention self noise from my research are Neumann (KH 80dsp with <20db (A) SPL) and Genelec (8010A, with <5db SPL). I've never heard these speakers in person so I have no reference as to how quiet (or noisy) that is, in relation to my current monitors, JBL LSR305P mk2. While I love the sound of my JBLs, the hiss gets in the way when working at low volumes, which is most of the time since I live in an apartment. And if you have super sensitive hearing like I do, you know what a nightmare that is.

The only places near me with studio monitors set up is Guitar Center. It was kind of hard to tell with all the other monitors powered on but I was able to get a general idea on a few. The monitors I checked out were: JBL LSR306P, Kali Audio LP6 V2, Adam T5V, Yamaha HS8, Mackie MR824, M-Audio (can't remember model), Genelec 8010A and a couple I haven't heard before. According to my ears, this was the order of noisiest to quietest: JBL, Adam, Kali, Genelec, Mackie, Yamaha and M-Audio. I can't really count the Genelecs because I think the speakers were blown.

Since I have the JBLs, it wasn't surprising to hear the JBL LSR306 being the noisiest. What was surprising was that the M-Audio was the quietest of them all, even quieter than the Yamahas and Mackies. I wasn't able to find any self noise specs on M-Audio's website on their studio monitors but their media reference monitor showed a signal to noise ratio of > 90 db (typical A-weighted). I was however able to find some spec on an older model M-Audio BX5 monitor that showed a 100 db (typical A-weighted) SNR. The JBLs have a 75dBA so I'm assuming that's why it's the noisiest.

At the moment, I'm considering the Mackie MR524, iLoud MTM and the Neumann KH 80dsp (though still not sure if I can afford this one). The Kalis were quieter than the JBL but not by much. The Yamahas are quieter than the Mackies but their highs kill my ears. The M-Audio just didn't sound neutral at all.

My question: does anyone know which of those three monitors I mentioned are the quietest? Are there other monitors that are considered very quiet that I haven't heard of before?

I'm assuming the Neumann is the quietest but I'd like to hear from actual owners of these monitors.

Thanks for reading!

Because of signal to noise ration the sound speakers generate by themselves is practically irrelevant. Adam and then Kali are probably the best monitors out now. Fairly new companies who probably stole engineers from old companies. I monitor with a little headphone amp that takes 4 1/8th outputs and 4 1/4 outputs so I can have multiple brands of headphones plugged in and it makes a little hiss. Moving it's adapter from other adapters reduces it somewhat. The guitar amp I use, a Rockman X-100 is notorious for noises like buzzing. Worse, until I had it refurbished recently it would cut out, change volumes, distortion and sustain. It was a nightmare. But actual speaker noise? Like the hiss in the headphone amp, play almost anything, piano sound, and that hiss is about 1% of it. 99% the signal of keyboard. You no longer hear it. Add 10 or 15 tracks and it is irrelevant. You learn to live with some imperfection. I heard a bunch of monitors at Guitar Center myself about a month or so ago. And the Adam T5V sounded better than any of them to me. Imagine miking someone's guitar amp who has distortion on. You can bet that noise is a lot louder than your monitors make. You can put a nose gate on it just like you can put compression on things to trim peaks, but with speaker noise I doubt there is anything you can do. Other than maybe try moving it around to see if there is interference with other things. Do you even know what guitar center was using? Cables, adapters? A bunch of machines side by side which could cause interference? Speaker noise is not that important. Get the ones that are the most accurate. Occasionally there are parts in songs with dead stops in between music, and that's when you have to figure out what to trim for various tracks to get complete silence. Otherwise, there will be noise. Electonic keyboards or drum machines are about the only things that will have extremely low noise on standstill.

 

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

I wonder if those monitors are measured with the analog inputs shorted. (If that is stated and I missed it, I apologize). Measure them with open inputs or connected sources (which have hiss and get amplified through the system) gives false readings and could be hiss not generated by the monitors' electronics.

My Genelec 8351B’s did display hiss at a close distance at the dealer. However, I feed them digital (AES/EBU) at home and shut down (deselect) the analog input in GLM. In this setup, they are dead silent.

 

[stevenswall]

Sometimes you just have to buy and return a few things that are promising. I was bothered by hiss in JBL and Kali monitors until Kali released the V2 IN-8 which I love. You might see if you can turn the speakers off, remove the input, turn them on, and see if there is still hiss if you can. Not sure how you'd check but I think some speakers also pretend to be silent because they are clamping down on the input if the input isn't above a certain level (essentially muting when they don't detect enough input.)

Here's a quick recording of me in a shop showing the hiss differences between some monitors if you haven't seen it yet.

A Kali IN-5/8 with the RCA input off will be significantly quieter than your JBL speakers (the RCA input turn off makes a small difference but even without it you should be good), and have the additional advantages of some placement correction which you don't get unless you get the iLoud MTM though that likely has less power handling abilities and the Neumann with room correction is significantly more costly.

Did you end up with a particular pair you're happy with noise wise?

 

[Avp1]

From the assessment some people did - to have monitor quiet, you need to choose one with linear amplifier. Class D amplifiers are much more noisier. Those with internal DSP are even worse. But there are only few brands still use linear amplifier in their monitors. Surprisingly M-Audio is one of them.

 

[unpluggged]

Here's a quick recording of me in a shop showing the hiss differences between some monitors if you haven't seen it yet.

I have to point out that you mislabeled ADAM A7X as HEDD Type 07, and this is significant, since HEDD monitors (at least their MK2 series) are notorious for their hiss levels, in contrast with ADAM AX series.

 

[unpluggged]

From the assessment some people did - to have monitor quiet, you need to choose one with linear amplifier. Class D amplifiers are much more noisier. Those with internal DSP are even worse.

Not necessarily. Neumann KH 80 DSP (and it looks like KH 150 and KH 120 II too) are nearly silent, despite being DSP-based with PWM amps.

 

[stevenswall]

I have to point out that you mislabeled ADAM A7X as HEDD Type 07, and this is significant, since HEDD monitors (at least their MK2 series) are notorious for their hiss levels, in contrast with ADAM AX series.

Thanks for catching that! I added the chapters after a commenter asked but it was a couple of years later so I couldn't recall and they looked similar.

It's updated now.

 

[soundglutton]

Update: Thanks for all your replies. I haven't had time to write this until now (mainly because I forgot! haha). Anyway, just wanted to let you all know that I ended up getting the Neumann KH 80 DSP monitors. Expensive (for me at least) but definitely worth it. The hiss level between these and the JBLs are a night and day difference. You can still hear a tiny bit of hiss but it's nothing compared to the JBL and quieter than Kali, Adam, Mackie and Yamaha. After listening to these Neumann's, I'd say the Yamaha come closest to being hiss-less but it also depends on the size of the monitors (8" monitors were much louder than the 5"). If I were to order them from the most to least amount of hiss, it would be JBL, Adam, Kali, Mackie, Yamaha and Neumann (at least from what I've been able to listen to in person). Still, I don't think I could use any of the speakers I listed after using the KH 80 now. Couldn't get the chance to listen to the Genelec or the Focal Shape monitors but I'm quite happy with the Neumann's.