Newbie question...which speakers

[MarkusTone]

Hi - Just found this site whilst googling speaker reviews.

I love listening to music. Not an expert ..more relaxing listening.

Anyhow, just built a garden room 12m x 5m and all hard surfaces. Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted at height of 1.6m and 2m apart on a 5m wall.

Sound is good enough for me using Sonos and streaming music but wondering if there are any better speakers within £600 budget and small enough to hang on wall as this suits the room layout.

Not a big base lover, more detailed mid range .....I prefer not to be swamped by base.

Still reading this great forum but any suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[staticV3]

Better than the Zensor 1, relaxed listening, no need for deep bass, small for wall mounting, good in a reflective room, £600 budget

How about Genelec 8010 (XLR), or Genelec G One (RCA)?
It's small, fits the budget, doesn't play super deep, and has smooth off-axis response which is important when your room is reflective.

You can read Amir's review of it here. The Genelec G One is the same, but with RCA inputs instead of XLR.

Edit: I think design-wise the white version in particular would mesh very well with a garden room with lots of plants.
Here are a bunch of pictures of Genelec speakers in living rooms:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../genelec-setups-in-living-rooms-how-to.32816/

 

[MarkusTone]

Thanks for the advice.
I know I should not be swayed but not keen on the enclosure shape.....bit too modern for me.....old school!

Still googling

These caught my eye and reviews
Polk Reserve R100
ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Bookshelf Speakers

and of course Dali Spektor and Oberon

Though at the moment I'm thinking what I have is maybe just as good?

Comments/advice or suggestions still appreciated......still looking.....

 

[MarkusTone]

So after much googling fancy these in this order

1. Elac Debut Reference DBR62
2. Polk Reserve R100

Comments/advice appreciated.

 

[VintageFlanker]

How about Genelec 8010 (XLR), or Genelec G One (RCA)?
It's small, fits the budget, doesn't play super deep, and has smooth off-axis response

...And are absolutely not suited to be played in some 60m2 room.

 

[voodooless]

...And are absolutely not suited to be played in some 60m2 room.

I have 8040 in a bit smaller size room, and that works, but not for filling the whole room, not at high volume anyway.

Why not try Kali LP-8. They pack a punch, should work much better in your room.

Kali Audio LP-8 2nd Wave

Active 8" Nearfield Monitor 3D Imaging waveguide technology for large, imaginary stereo stages, Bass reflex system, Boundary EQ to adjust the sound in different studio environments, Power: 100 W (60 W / 40 W bi-amped), Loudspeaker configuration: 8"...

www.thomann.de

 

[LightninBoy]

I love listening to music. Not an expert ..more relaxing listening.

Not a big base lover, more detailed mid range .....I prefer not to be swamped by base.

For your consideration: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-message-from-a-bass-head.14573/

Good luck on your speaker search.

 

[DanielT]

Comments/advice or suggestions still appreciated......still looking.....

Yes, you said "Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted."
Are the new speakers also required to be wall mounted?

Speaker size? Any restrictions?

Appearance, the looks, on the speakers, does it matter?

How do you feel about the flexibility regarding placing the listening armchair, or the sofa you sit in when you listen to music? Can it only be at a certain distance from the speakers?

Do you like to play at high volume or "normal" listening volume? If you don't know the dB level, download a free dB app and measure with your mobile in your listening position.

Depending on your conditions, it controls your choice of speakers. For example, high volume, long listening distance= the more SPL is required from your speakers, preferably with headroom. It is needed so that they do not start to distort and sound bad. Decent power on your amp in that case too.

Edit:
High SPL is no guarantee of low distortion. Best to add that.

 

[MarkusTone]

Many Thanks for the replies and advice.
Still looking and not found anywhere local that can demo the ones I am looking at so far.

They need to be mounted on the wall as the room is used as a dining and living area. Not perfect by any means as table (3m long) is about 1m in front of the speakers.

Have been very happy with Dali Zensors which were always wall mounted but moved to garden room as this is used nearly all of the time now.

As wall mounted I'd like to keep the size reasonable.

I prefer black finish though not essential.

I am mostly listening to Deezer Premium using Sonos Amp (the new black one).
Mostly listening as background music and sometimes I turn it up...depending on mood. I will get a db app and measure it.

List is now as follows but not in any order of preference though I'm tending towards the Polk R200's

Polk R200
Elac Debut Reference DBR62....great front firing vents I think for wall mounting....but low volume comments put me off.
Revel Concerta2 M16.....bit over budget but I read very good reviews....don't like black shiny finish...looks like plastic. Might change my mind if I can see them.
Klipsch Reference 600M II....again over budget really...though maybe too much base reading reviews?

Will google the Kali LP-8

At the moment.....still happy with the Dali Zensor but tempted if I can find and listen to something better.

Thanks for the update.

Ok - Downloaded db app .
Typically 50-60db background
80db when listening to music

I read Kali LP-8 are Active speakers ...so need power.....not an option as no local power sockets nor do I want exposed leads as current speaker leads were fitted behind plasterboard when I built the room.

 

[DanielT]

Then you are flexible and that in itself opens up possibilities for choosing speakers. Listening level, volyme is one of the decisive factors in the choice of speakers and amplifier (the level of power).

Fascinating how much more amp power is needed if you double the listening distance but want the same sound level.
"We get a sound level drop of 6 dB per doubling of distance." 6 dB is a lot.

Sound level distance damping decibel dB damping calculation calculator change distance versus sound level apps reduction drop dissipation SPL sound transmission loss free field loss sound and distance - decrease drop fall sound over distance versus d

Sound level distance damping decibel dB calculator calculation change distance versus decibel dB decibel sound level apps drop dissipation SPL sound transmission loss damping calculation loss sound distance sound reduction free field decrease fall drop attenuation sound over distance versus dB...

www.sengpielaudio.com

Here, if you are curious, you can experiment:

How much power does an amplifier need with this type of range of dynamic music

Feel free to use this calculator. Add sensitivity to the speaker and then tell which effect you have chosen and why. Weigh in that you want some headroom. http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/REAP.html You can select music from this list. Or something else, but in that case tell us how you...

audiosciencereview.com

I wonder , Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted you say. But they have the port mounted on the back. It should, partly because of your wall which provides bass support in itself and port on the back give a real boost in the bass area. At least 6 dB compared to if you have them placed some distance from the back wall.

Your Dali Zensor 1 has a 5 dB boost in the 8 kHz-10 kHz range. 5 dB is a lot and audible. If you like it, maybe you're a treble junkie? Something for you to think about if you are considering new speakers. Others like an oppositely sloping FR. Something that you might not like at all. Like this:

Your Dali Zensor 1 looks like this:

So think about it if someone say that the speakers measure really well that they can mean that curve that Floyd E Toole came up with that 21 people liked. Maybe you wouldn't be one of them 21, on the contrary?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Subjectively-preferred-steady-state-room-curve-targets-in-a-typical-domestic-listening_fig6_283039780

DALI Zensor 1 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the DALI Zensor 1's frequency response in the farfield; and an Earthworks QTC-40, with its small, ¼" capsule, for the nearfield responses. (The small capsule doesn't interfere with the airflow.)

www.stereophile.com

My tip, try moving your Dalis around and also try adjusting your FR via EQ. Maybe you will like some placement better than the one you have now with them on your wall? You might find an EQ setting that you really like.

Fixing the room acoustics can do wonder for the sound, but that might be a topic for another thread.

 

[thewas]

I wonder , Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted you say. But they have the port mounted on the back. It should, partly because of your wall which provides bass support in itself and port on the back give a real boost in the bass area. At least 6 dB compared to if you have them placed some distance from the back wall.

Your Dali Zensor 1 has a 5 dB boost in the 8 kHz-10 kHz range. 5 dB is a lot and audible. If you like it, maybe you're a treble junkie? Something for you to think about if you are considering new speakers. Others like an oppositely sloping FR. Something that you might not like at all. Like this:

It should be said though that those preferred steady-state room curves are something different than the anechoic on axis response of a loudspeaker, meaning that depending on room acoustics and listening distance you can still have have decreasing steady state response at the listening position with an anechoically on axis rising frequency response loudspeaker, its slope will be just smaller.

 

[DanielT]

It should be said though that those preferred steady-state room curves are something different than the anechoic on axis response of a loudspeaker, meaning that depending on room acoustics and listening distance you can still have have decreasing steady state response at the listening position with an anechoically on axis rising frequency response loudspeaker, its slope will be just smaller.

Missed that. You have a good point.

 

[DanielT]

It should be said though that those preferred steady-state room curves are something different than the anechoic on axis response of a loudspeaker, meaning that depending on room acoustics and listening distance you can still have have decreasing steady state response at the listening position with an anechoically on axis rising frequency response loudspeaker, its slope will be just smaller.

Hm, considering what you said and the Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted MIGHT be able to give a good FR. That should give an increase in bass and a decrease in treble compared to Stereophile's measurement:

DALI Zensor 1 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the DALI Zensor 1's frequency response in the farfield; and an Earthworks QTC-40, with its small, ¼" capsule, for the nearfield responses. (The small capsule doesn't interfere with the airflow.)

www.stereophile.com

 

[thewas]

Hm, considering what you said and the Dali Zensor 1 speakers wall mounted MIGHT be able to give a good FR. That should give an increase in bass and a decrease in treble compared to Stereophile's measurement:
View attachment 247733

DALI Zensor 1 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the DALI Zensor 1's frequency response in the farfield; and an Earthworks QTC-40, with its small, ¼" capsule, for the nearfield responses. (The small capsule doesn't interfere with the airflow.)

www.stereophile.com

Exactly, for wall mounted speakers usually a full baffle step compensation can lead to too much bass and lower mids.

 

[MarkusTone]

Thanks for the advice....Come to think of it I think I am a treble junkie mostly but some music I do like the base.
A friend has B&W 603's and Hallelujah by Pentatonix (the only example of my choice I listened to on the B&W's) ....the base sounds a bit washed out compared to my Zensors which are hanging on the wall but not lose as the rubber feet that came with them are fixed to the rear of the speaker in each corner and its a tight fit against the wall. I can physically feel the sound wave when those low notes are played.

The hard room surfaces, LVT floor on screed/concrete, plastered walls and ceiling, no curtains, little furniture, for me, makes the room a pleasure for listening to music and the Zensors easily fill the room.

I'm wondering if what I have is enough as what kicked off the search is me selling some new unused Dali Phantom Kompass 6M ceiling speakers that I bought some years ago for the kitchen, which is now open plan to the extension, but decided I had no need for them as the Zensors filled the room with sound. Anyhow, I demo'd them to the chap that bought them and just by chance picked on Youtube (as I used living room surround amp for this) the song Bad Habits by Ed Sheeran....and wow...I'd forgotten how good the Phantoms sounded.....made the Zensors sound a bit dull/muffled with the same track. I would have kept the Phantoms if there was somewhere I could fit and use them.
Might be the Onkyo amp though.....many years ago I bought a replacement Yamaha amp, but for me the sound was too warm, not in your face like the Onkyo. So I sold it and kept the Onkyo.

So still on the fence.....would love to be amazed though.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for the advice....Come to think of it I think I am a treble junkie mostly but some music I do like the base.
A friend has B&W 603's and Hallelujah by Pentatonix (the only example of my choice I listened to on the B&W's) ....the base sounds a bit washed out compared to my Zensors which are hanging on the wall but not lose as the rubber feet that came with them are fixed to the rear of the speaker in each corner and its a tight fit against the wall. I can physically feel the sound wave when those low notes are played.

The hard room surfaces, LVT floor on screed/concrete, plastered walls and ceiling, no curtains, little furniture, for me, makes the room a pleasure for listening to music and the Zensors easily fill the room.

I'm wondering if what I have is enough as what kicked off the search is me selling some new unused Dali Phantom Kompass 6M ceiling speakers that I bought some years ago for the kitchen, which is now open plan to the extension, but decided I had no need for them as the Zensors filled the room with sound. Anyhow, I demo'd them to the chap that bought them and just by chance picked on Youtube (as I used living room surround amp for this) the song Bad Habits by Ed Sheeran....and wow...I'd forgotten how good the Phantoms sounded.....made the Zensors sound a bit dull/muffled with the same track. I would have kept the Phantoms if there was somewhere I could fit and use them.
Might be the Onkyo amp though.....many years ago I bought a replacement Yamaha amp, but for me the sound was too warm, not in your face like the Onkyo. So I sold it and kept the Onkyo.

So still on the fence.....would love to be amazed though.

There are other things you can try.

I don't know anything about Sonos but apparently there is a loudness functionality. I don't know if you have it on your model? BUT if you have that, you said:
"Ok - Downloaded db app .
Typically 50-60db background
80db when listening to music"
Have you tested loudness functionality when playing music at the 50-60db level?

If you are interested in reading more about loudness, there is a thread about it, this one:

Should you use Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation?

I know many are familiar with the Fletcher-Munson or equal loudness curves. In a nutshell: “The Fletcher Munson Curve contains a set of graphs that show that when you listen to music at a lower volume, mid-range frequencies will be sound more prominent, whereas high and low frequencies will be...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
I came up with another thing you can do if you are happy with your HiFi stuff, listen to music.
Various music threads with good tips here:

Music Reviews and Discussions

audiosciencereview.com