Newbie looking for advise

[dtomamichel]

Hi to all? I'm Doug Tomamichel, and new to the group.

Here is my equipment and stereo audio only room - looking forward to any ideas on improving my setup
Zero Surge

Project Debut Carbon & Oppo UDP-203 which is normally in my home theater
Pioneer DVD-V7400 (CD transport via coax to Topping D70)
HP Spectre Pro x360 G2 Convertible Touchscreen 13.3in QHD (2560X1440), i7-6600U, 8GB LPDDR3-1600, 512GB SSD, Bluetooth, WiFi, Win 10 Pro - Foobar 2000 FLAC

HP USB to Topping D70 (connections are balanced to Emotiva)

Emotiva XSP-1 (connections are balanced ) to JungSon JA-99C

Martin Logan ESL & HSU ULS-15MK2

Stax SRM-1MK2 Stax SR307 & SR-A Lambda

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[antcollinet]

My advice.

Put some music on.
Sit back
Enjoy it.

You are unlikely to improve your system significantly beyond what you have. Alternatively feel free to continue spending huge sums for marginal improvements, but will you ever enjoy your kit for what it is for, that way?

 

[SKBubba]

What are you looking to improve?

 

[Maki]

Hi to all? I'm Doug Tomamichel, and new to the group.

Here is my equipment and stereo audio only room - looking forward to any ideas on improving my setup
Zero Surge

Project Debut Carbon & Oppo UDP-203 which is normally in my home theater
Pioneer DVD-V7400 (CD transport via coax to Topping D70)
HP Spectre Pro x360 G2 Convertible Touchscreen 13.3in QHD (2560X1440), i7-6600U, 8GB LPDDR3-1600, 512GB SSD, Bluetooth, WiFi, Win 10 Pro - Foobar 2000 FLAC

HP USB to Topping D70 (connections are balanced to Emotiva)

Emotiva XSP-1 (connections are balanced ) to JungSon JA-99C

Martin Logan ESL & HSU ULS-15MK2

Stax SRM-1MK2 Stax SR307 & SR-A Lambda

• 
  3-26 stereo layout.jpg
  388.1 KB · Views: 0

Might want to recap the SRM1 if it hasn't been serviced for a decade or two just in case.

 

[JeffS7444]

Do you have any sort of room correction in use? You may not have really heard what your system is capable of until you do!

I've a hunch that your Martin Logan speakers and Stax headphones are among the weaker performers here, but DSP works for headphones too.

 

[dtomamichel]

My advice.

Put some music on.
Sit back
Enjoy it.

You are unlikely to improve your system significantly beyond what you have. Alternatively feel free to continue spending huge sums for marginal improvements, but will you ever enjoy your kit for what it is for, that way?

yes I agree thx

 

[dtomamichel]

Do you have any sort of room correction in use? You may not have really heard what your system is capable of until you do!

I've a hunch that your Martin Logan speakers and Stax headphones are among the weaker performers here, but DSP works for headphones too.

what dsp do you suggest

 

[dtomamichel]

What are you looking to improve?

room acoustics or using dsp

 

[alex-z]

I would start out with some basic mineral wool absorption panels. Best performance per dollar upgrade you can make.

Second subwoofer and a miniDSP 2x4HD for bass management would also be a good idea, but less critical than room treatment.

 

[JeffS7444]

what dsp do you suggest

Given your mix of analog and digital sources and balanced i/o, perhaps a good old-school Behringer DEQ2496 and ECM8000 measurement microphone. While newer technologies like Trinnov and Dirac Live seem to be where a lot of the excitement is today, integrating them into your current system might not be such a trivial undertaking. I call DEQ2496 "old school" because rather than sending a series of chirps through your speakers and applying parametric filters, it relies on a built-in pink noise generator and auto-eq to do it's thing. I'm no expert but I think the upshot is that newer technology like DL can provide more precise correction.

But having said that, DEQ2496 actually has a whole range of other tricks up it's sleeve, including a parametric equalizer, so if you use some free software like Room EQ Wizard to calculate parametric filter parameters, I suppose there's no reason why you couldn't manually plug those values into the DEQ. And one of these days I ought to do that myself, but I was already so pleased with the results of the DEQ's built-in routine that I have failed to try the more sophisticated approach for several years now.

Headphone measurement and correction is a bit more complicated as there are special measurement devices involved. That's why folks seek out suggested filter settings from the likes of Oratory1990 or Amir, who have spent the $$ for the test hardware.

 

[DVDdoug]

Yeah, normally I say "speakers"... Every speaker (and headphone) sounds different so that's usually the place to make an improvement but assuming you chose those speakers & headphones because you like the sound it's going to be hard to make an improvement.

Next would be EQ, and digital EQ is free. Hardware EQ is affordable. If you actually want to measure the results of EQ and "correct" the room, that's a $100 USD investment in a measurement microphone and an investment of time. (The measurement software is free.)

There are a couple of limitations with EQ. You can't fix a standing wave node (where the sound waves cancel) because that takes almost "infinite" power and "infinitely large" woofers to overcome the cancellation. That has to fixed with bass traps (to trap the waves before they are reflected). Similarly, you can only boost the bass so-much before you overload the amplifier or speakers.

Other than adding an equalizer, upgrading your electronics is unlikely to make an improvement unless you need more more amplifier power, or unless you're hearing noise (hiss or hum). Most electronics has low noise, low distortion, and flat frequency response.

...Personally, I like to use one of the "soundfield" settings on my AVR to get reverb in the rear speakers. Hi-Fi "purists" wouldn't like that kind of artificial processing, but I do! And, I assume you've already tried that with your home theater system.

 

[dtomamichel]

I would start out with some basic mineral wool absorption panels. Best performance per dollar upgrade you can make.

Second subwoofer and a miniDSP 2x4HD for bass management would also be a good idea, but less critical than room treatment.

thx

 

[dtomamichel]

Might want to recap the SRM1 if it hasn't been serviced for a decade or two just in case.

I had it back to Stax about 6 years ago thx

 

[dtomamichel]

Yeah, normally I say "speakers"... Every speaker (and headphone) sounds different so that's usually the place to make an improvement but assuming you chose those speakers & headphones because you like the sound it's going to be hard to make an improvement.

Next would be EQ, and digital EQ is free. Hardware EQ is affordable. If you actually want to measure the results of EQ and "correct" the room, that's a $100 USD investment in a measurement microphone and an investment of time. (The measurement software is free.)

There are a couple of limitations with EQ. You can't fix a standing wave node (where the sound waves cancel) because that takes almost "infinite" power and "infinitely large" woofers to overcome the cancellation. That has to fixed with bass traps (to trap the waves before they are reflected). Similarly, you can only boost the bass so-much before you overload the amplifier or speakers.

Other than adding an equalizer, upgrading your electronics is unlikely to make an improvement unless you need more more amplifier power, or unless you're hearing noise (hiss or hum). Most electronics has low noise, low distortion, and flat frequency response.

...Personally, I like to use one of the "soundfield" settings on my AVR to get reverb in the rear speakers. Hi-Fi "purists" wouldn't like that kind of artificial processing, but I do! And, I assume you've already tried that with your home theater system.

thx I appreciated your thoughts

 

[richard12511]

Most important thing by far is to get a measurement microphone. That will allow you(and us) to see where the weaknesses of your system are, and then we can have a better hope of fixing them.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/ac...k4lpV9EbRgu8cbmSG4W7iFYVp88CPRd4aAiPjEALw_wcB

^ that's the one I use, and it's more than good enough(and comes with a calibration file).

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

^ that's a free (fantastic) software you can use to measure your listening room response. We can help guide you threw the process.


After that, speakers and DSP make the biggest difference. What do you like about your Martin Logans? What do you dislike? Have you heard other speakers you like more?

For DSP, having read through Mitch Barnett's in excellent book, and speaking with him, the two best DSPs out there are probably Acourate and Audiolense, especially for your setup(2.1). Personally, I have good experience with Dirac. It's not as great as those first two, but having a hardware based solution has advantages(it comes with certain AVRs and you can buy units from the same company that sells the UMIK-1). Audyssey MultEQ xt32 is another good option that comes with other AVRs. I'd rate it slightly below Dirac.

 

[dtomamichel]

Most important thing by far is to get a measurement microphone. That will allow you(and us) to see where the weaknesses of your system are, and then we can have a better hope of fixing them.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/ac...k4lpV9EbRgu8cbmSG4W7iFYVp88CPRd4aAiPjEALw_wcB

^ that's the one I use, and it's more than good enough(and comes with a calibration file).

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

^ that's a free (fantastic) software you can use to measure your listening room response. We can help guide you threw the process.


After that, speakers and DSP make the biggest difference. What do you like about your Martin Logans? What do you dislike? Have you heard other speakers you like more?

For DSP, having read through Mitch Barnett's in excellent book, and speaking with him, the two best DSPs out there are probably Acourate and Audiolense, especially for your setup(2.1). Personally, I have good experience with Dirac. It's not as great as those first two, but having a hardware based solution has advantages(it comes with certain AVRs and you can buy units from the same company that sells the UMIK-1). Audyssey MultEQ xt32 is another good option that comes with other AVRs. I'd rate it slightly below Dirac.

thx lots to learn as the stereo is located in our living room which means no sound panels or room treatments other than electronics are okay

 

[JayGilb]

thx lots to learn as the stereo is located in our living room which means no sound panels or room treatments other than electronics are okay

Depending on what nodes need to be tamed, if any, they make a lot of attractive sound treatment options.